Issa Rae on the belief that gets her through 'stupid mistakes and bad decisions'

Welcome to Wild Card from NPR, where host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.

The interviews I'm doing for Wild Card are teaching me a lot. And the lesson I took from my conversation with Issa Rae is that there is power in optimism.

When you are a kid you learn about optimism in its binary form. "Is the glass half full or half empty?" And it was clear to me as a kid that you didn't want to be a "glass half empty" kind of person. Those people were sad and negative and maybe sort of broken.

And then I grew up and lived some life and became a journalist. And I reported on awful things that sapped the optimism right out of me, because there is no bright in the face of so much pain. And there were times when I thought that to describe oneself as "optimistic" was a silly, naive thing to do. What does that word even mean in the face of suffering?

But I've come to understand that optimism is a choice, and it isn't just about choosing to believe things will get better — it's about working to make sure they do. Optimism is hope made real in the world through action.

So when Issa Rae tells me she believes things are supposed to work out the way they're supposed to, I hear way more than something that can be turned into a refrigerator magnet. I hear a woman who has taken her optimism, knitted it tightly together with action and made change in the world.

Sure, she has amazing acting cred. She was in three Oscar-nominated films last year, including Barbie and American Fiction. She also created and starred in the HBO hit Insecure. But Rae is bigger than that. She's well on her way to building her own media empire with the goal of connecting underrepresented creators of color to the companies and brands that will invest in their work.

She's one of these people who doesn't believe in failure when it comes to her own professional life. And I really believe her. There's always another day to push forward. There's another chance to make a difference in big and small ways. That's true optimism and that's real power.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Question 1: What's a moment when you felt proud of yourself as a kid?

Issa Rae: A moment when I felt proud of myself was definitely making my older brothers laugh. My entire family is funny, but my older brothers in particular are so funny to me, and they are closer in age, so they have a rapport.

I was the third sibling that came six years later. So while they're two years apart, me and my older brother are six years apart. So I was always like, the girl, the young one. And so making them laugh was like, am I part of the club now?

Rachel Martin: Were you?

Rae: I wasn't. It was very short-lived. Because then it was like I tried too hard, you know? Nobody likes a try-hard.

Martin: No, which is really difficult when you're a kid who wants to be accepted by your older brothers. Did you have a particular brand of comedy at that age? Was it physical comedy? Was it puns? Knock, knock jokes?

Rae: What a good question. There was a physical element, yeah, because it was rooted in imitation. And then storytelling. I like to tell stories, you know, things that happened. And I think inevitably that turned into my commentary on things that happened.

Martin: And you still sort of do that.

Rae: I do. Look at that.

Question 2: How comfortable are you with silence?

Rae: Generally, I love silence.

Martin: You do?

Rae: Yeah, I like to be alone in a lot of places.

Martin: Do you need that?

Rae: Yes.

Martin: Like, I actually need to get away from people and not talk, but you seem like an extroverted human being.

Rae: Are you insane? Thank you for that. No, I'm not. I'm extroverted around my own confines. I have to curate the ability to be an extrovert. But no, generally I love being alone. I like traveling alone. I like eating alone. I love going to the movies alone sometimes. And I still love the people I love, but it's necessary.

Though I will say, my friend talked about how she's going on a silent retreat. I was like, 'What is that?' And she was like, 'You can't have your device, you can't read.' And that is terrifying to me. That's terrifyingly boring. Because I like my silence doing things, you know. It is about being alone with your thoughts and seeing what comes out of it. But yeah, I don't know that I could do that. I could, because I can do anything, competitively.

Martin: I would win that silent retreat so hard.

Rae: I would shut the f*** up so f****** hard. But I have no desire to do that. But generally I love silence.

Question 3: Do you have a belief system that helps you make sense of the world?

Rae: Yes, that everything happens for a reason. That gets me through so much. That gets me through those stupid mistakes and bad decisions. I'm a big fork-in-the-road person. That's a fear that is just, like, going down the wrong path. And so, I assuage those concerns and fears by saying like, this all happens for a reason.

The reason could benefit me or it'll benefit someone else. If this thing that I really wanted didn't come to me, it was because it was supposed to go to this person and they're having a great time. I'm so happy for them. Like, it just wasn't for me.

Martin: Can you give me an example of the fork in the road? Is there a really profound one that you still think about?

Rae: The Paris trip. I was supposed to study abroad. I was supposed to go to Paris and there was also a guy there that I was talking to really seriously.

But I had this opportunity to submit to a Sundance thing, a script that I'd written with a friend, but I had to be in town if we won and we were semi-finalists. And so, if I went to Paris, I wouldn't be able to get the opportunity to do this Sundance thing.

And, you know, it was going to be lit. My friends were studying abroad in Paris. This guy was there. And he was, like, one of my first real loves. And that would have been just, it would have been a different life path.

And we weren't finalists. So I had wasted this trip and the memories and the chance at whatever that would have been.

Martin: That relationship...

Rae: Yes. And then I was just back at school. But I always wonder, like, what would my life have been if I had taken that trip?

And there are so many other moments where it's just, oh my God, if that hadn't happened, I wouldn't have had the happiness that I have today. And there are a couple of things like that that sometimes keep me up at night.

Martin: Yeah. You don't need me to tell you, but you weren't supposed to be with that guy.

Rae: Not at all. But I still think about it.

Martin: Yeah. You're thinking about it right now? [Laughs]

Rae: [Laughs] I am happily married, thank you.