Watch the queen conquer: MC Lyte, Quay Dash, the cast of 'Rap Sh!t'
RODNEY CARMICHAEL, HOST:
A warning before we begin - this podcast is explicit in every way.
So did y'all hang out off set, or did y'all...
KAMILLION: Yeah, we did.
CARMICHAEL: ...During filming?
KAMILLION: She...
AIDA OSMAN: Oh, yeah.
KAMILLION: So, like...
OSMAN: Oh, yeah.
CARMICHAEL: Give us some stories. Give us some stories, please.
KAMILLION: I remember when we were getting ready to film...
OSMAN: Oh, remember when we got kicked out of 11 'cause we was fighting the racist woman in the bathroom?
SIDNEY MADDEN, HOST:
That's KaMillion and Aida Osman, the lead actors on the HBO show "Rap Sh!t." And on our Zoom call, Aida is reliving the night that solidified her friendship with her on-screen co-star.
OSMAN: Millie came to the club with her lawyers. Who does that? That's hilarious already. It's me, KaMillion and two older white men just having a blast that night...
MADDEN: Oh, my God.
OSMAN: ...Like, just running around the streets of Miami.
CARMICHAEL: The four of them were getting turnt at the same club Aida and KaMillion had just been filming the show at a few days earlier and were set to film at again. You could say they were getting ratchet for the sake of research. Aida stepped away for a second to go to the bathroom, and apparently the club staff had a problem with that.
OSMAN: I'm trying to use one of the bathrooms, and they're like, this is for the employees, ma'am. You can't pee here. But I'm already in the stall peeing, so that's crazy.
KAMILLION: And she made me mad 'cause she walked in on my girl peeing. I'm like, b****, what? What is you doing?
OSMAN: I'm calling the cops. Get out. You're going to jail. Get out of here.
KAMILLION: I'm like, girl, you call whoever you want to call. And as soon as we walked out the bathroom, they sure did.
OSMAN: She called who she wanted to call.
KAMILLION: They had us surrounded.
MADDEN: Since the club staff called their backup, KaMillion called hers.
KAMILLION: I called my lawyers, so, I'm like, hey. Yo. We over here. They're trying to take us. They're trying to kick us out of here. Like, we stars. We - I don't know what's going on. I feel like they're, like - what do you call it? - racially profiling us because, you know, it wasn't a lot of Black people in the club that night.
OSMAN: He shuffles down from the section 'cause we was in a section with her lawyers.
MADDEN: Oh, my God.
OSMAN: And he comes, and he intervenes, and he helps us out. But in that moment, I shut down. I remember being like, I'm so scared right now. Like, what's going on? Millie is yelling, defending my honor. In the midst of it all, I felt so warm. I was like...
KAMILLION: They're like, do y'all want to come back in the club? I'm like, no, we don't want to be here no more. You know how much money...
OSMAN: Yeah.
KAMILLION: ...HBO just paid for us to film here?
CARMICHAEL: (Laughter.)
OSMAN: Come on. Get out of here.
MADDEN: Yeah.
OSMAN: We are Issa Rae's daughters.
(LAUGHTER)
OSMAN: Racially profile me - hello? Do you know who I work for?
MADDEN: The reason Aida's calling themselves Issa Rae's daughters is because Issa Rae is the creator of "Rap Sh!t." The comedy is based loosely on City Girls, and it's all about two Miami rappers who form an unlikely pair and find more success together than they would apart. This imagining of two women in rap collaborating goes against one of the oldest rules in hip-hop.
KAMILLION: There can only be one queen bitch. That's why the girls be arguing all the time.
CARMICHAEL: Aida remembers this coming up a lot in the writers' room.
OSMAN: We were thinking a lot about how there was only room for, like, one pop-rap woman until about post-Nicki Minaj. And there was, like, an era in the '90s where it didn't feel that way necessarily. Like, there was a Lil Kim era, and she was clearly on top. But there was other women from different sides of the country representing what it looked like and reflecting what it looked like to be from Miami, to be from Philly, to be from Houston or wherever they were from. And then, like, if you like La Chat, you like La Chat. If you like Trina, you like Trina. Like, there was corners for everywhere to go, for everyone to go. And then Nicki Minaj came through and was, like, the only one, and that's all we got. And every single song on the radio from, like, 2010 to 2017 was a Nicki Minaj song.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MOMENT 4 LIFE")
NICKI MINAJ: (Rapping) Don't worry about me.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SUPER BASS")
MINAJ: (Singing) Boy, you got my heartbeat running away.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "STARSHIPS")
MINAJ: (Singing) Starships were meant to fly.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ANACONDA")
MINAJ: (Rapping) Boy toy named Troy, used to...
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ONLY")
MINAJ: (Rapping) I never f***ed Wayne. I never f***ed Drake.
CARMICHAEL: Aida even caught herself sipping the Kool-Aid.
OSMAN: And then Cardi B came out of nowhere.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BODAK YELLOW")
CARDI B: (Rapping) I said little b****, you can't f*** with me if you wanted to. These expensive. These is red bottoms. These is bloody shoes.
OSMAN: I was in college. I remember it was all over the place. And I remember thinking consciously and catching myself going, well, damn, Nicki Minaj's career is over and being like, b****, why the f*** do it got to be like that?
KAMILLION: But that's what we're thinking because that's how we're programmed.
MADDEN: I'm Sidney Madden.
CARMICHAEL: I'm Rodney Carmichael. And from NPR Music, this is LOUDER THAN A RIOT, where we confront the double standard that's become the standard.
MADDEN: In each of the last nine episodes, we've been tackling an unwritten rule of rap that affects the most marginalized among us and holds the entire culture back. But on this episode, we're digging into the mother of all those rules - the scarcity mindset.
CARMICHAEL: The belief that access and resources are so limited that you got to fight tooth and nail for them and that only one can make it to the top at a time.
MADDEN: The scarcity mindset is what enforces all the other rules. It's what conditions rappers to believe they need to act a certain way, look a certain way, rap a certain way, put up with harassment, alienation and erasure.
CARMICHAEL: So for our last episode of the season, we break down the scarcity mindset, how it's endured for so long and how it's being challenged now more than ever.
MADDEN: And as a goodbye, we face the scarcity happening to us as a podcast in the world of hip-hop media right now. Rule No. 10 - watch the queen conquer.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
CARMICHAEL: All right, Sid. I don't know if you remember one of these early pitch meetings we had when we were first starting to throw all our ideas at the wall about what we wanted this season to be and what we wanted to cover. You had this one theme that you stuck to and said it was essential that we got into this season, and that theme was scarcity. And I remember when you said it, I was like, OK, 'cause it's one of those terms that I'm only really used to hearing in economic terms. And so I was really curious, like, what was going through your head when you pitched it?
MADDEN: I mean, it's just always been there, you know? It's one of those hip-hop commandments that I feel like goes unnamed the most. It's everywhere. It's omnipresent in the culture, but because it goes unnamed, it's able to go unchecked. But if you really start looking for it, you can see it pop up and be the deeper motivation behind a lot of specific, you know, conflicts that play out in hip-hop, right? As we were reporting on our stories this season, it became clear that scarcity underpinned a lot of scenarios we were covering, like when Sha was made to feel like she had to pick between being a mom or being an MC by her own crew.
CARMICHAEL: OK.
MADDEN: Or when Dream felt she had to get a BBL to get noticed in the industry.
CARMICHAEL: Or when Makonnen got deserted by hip-hop 'cause of his own male expression.
MADDEN: Exactly. Right. Scarcity functions in a way that reinforces all the other rules. All season long, we've been tracking it through 50 years of hip-hop, and you can see it's been there from the start.
CARMICHAEL: Yeah. I mean, it definitely goes back to the foundations. And one of the earliest folks that you talked to talked about exactly that.
MC LYTE: The funny thing is I think two women can always find a common ground. I think it's the testosterone and the ego of the men to make women feel like you got to be the only one. You the only one on top.
MADDEN: That's the legendary MC Lyte, who started her career alongside the duo Audio Two. And she felt the squeeze of the scarcity mindset all the way back in 1988.
LYTE: We're driving. We're on the highway headed back to New York City. It's late. It's during the Mr. Magic Marley Marl hour, which I think was somewhere between 9 to 12.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Back by popular demand...
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Who is it?
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: It's magic.
MADDEN: They heard a sample of their track "Top Billin'" being played on the radio with another group's raps on it. A woman on the track named Antoinette was coming at them.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I GOT AN ATTITUDE")
ANTOINETTE: (Rapping) You want to know why I play you like that? I don't like your face. Take your running shoes off. You ain't in this race. Kick back.
LYTE: She was dissing guys. And she said something about your bodyguard, whatever. At least, that's what they thought they heard.
MADDEN: Audio Two took offense immediately.
LYTE: And they hear the record, and they just go bananas in terms of what are we going to do? This is some BS - blah, blah, blah. And then they all looked at me and was like, it's a girl. You got to diss her. And I was like, all right. I was young. You know, like, girl, tell me there's a fight, and I'm coming. I'm showing up. And so we went straight into the studio, INS studio on Murray Street, downtown Manhattan, and we stayed in overnight and came out with "10% Dis."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "10% DIS")
LYTE: (Rapping) Hot damn, hoe. Here we go again. Suckers steal a beat when you know they can't win. You stole the beat. Are you having fun? Now me and the Auds going to show you how it's done. You are what I label as a nerve blocker. You're plucking my nerves, you MC sucker.
CARMICHAEL: "10% Dis" gave MC Lyte a stamp. It got her name moving in the streets, too. But it wasn't even MC Lyte's fight.
MADDEN: What is their knee-jerk reaction saying, oh, it's a girl; you got to diss her; you got to answer her back; what does that say about misogyny?
LYTE: Well, for me, what it said is that they wanted to use me to diss her because ego.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "10% DIS")
LYTE: (Singing) Beat biter, dope style taker. Tell you to your face, you ain't nothing but a faker.
You know, they felt like she was coming right at them, yet they couldn't be seen as monsters to diss her themselves. So they had to put it on my shoulder.
MADDEN: Putting that on Lyte's shoulders was pitting the two MCs against each other instead of allowing them to focus on their own craft. And who's that fighting really for?
KATHY IANDOLI: Conflict between women leads men to envision Turkish oil wrestling. Men don't want to watch an argument. Men want to watch them wrestle. And in hip-hop, it became like that kind of a sport for men to watch, to watch women fight each other.
MADDEN: That's Kathy Iandoli, a music journalist, professor and author of "God Save The Queens: The Essential History Of Women In Hip-Hop."
CARMICHAEL: The thing that's always said is, like, you know, competition is the main driver of the culture. So what would you say is the difference between healthy competition and scarcity?
IANDOLI: I think hip-hop is a sport only to those who identify as athletes. For others, it's an art - for those who identify as artists. So sometimes what would happen is you were trying to put artists onto a field to play ball, and some of those artists just weren't down for that. And likewise, you have seasoned athletes who didn't really participate in the art. So they made it interesting by just going at each other. And women live somewhere in the middle of that.
There are women who were highly artistic who had no desire to compete with anyone, but here they are putting them on the court and in the field trying to get them to go against each other. And they're like, how did I get here? I had a poetry background, or I was singing in church. Why are you putting me toe-to-toe against another woman when there's so few of us to begin with?
CARMICHAEL: So let's go back to the roots of scarcity and break down the math of it all. If the fragility of the male ego means men won't go toe to toe with women, that means women can only really battle each other. Now, call it chivalry or straight-up misogyny, but the outcome is the same. Women MCs aren't treated as equals in the game.
MADDEN: And let's add a layer to that, Rodney. If women are only fighting each other and there's so few of them, what happens? A reputation starts to form. They're catty. They can't work together. You got to keep them separate.
IANDOLI: And I think that what started to happen was they started to use the phrase first lady, and that became a limiting title because nobody wanted to be the second lady.
MADDEN: So being crowned first lady usually meant you were the only lady - less of a compliment than a way to condition women MCs to fight over scraps rather than fighting the men who were making the opportunities so scarce.
CARMICHAEL: Yeah, we've seen it play out way too many times - Lil' Kim, first lady of Junior M.A.F.I.A.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CRUSH ON YOU")
LIL' KIM: (Rapping) Won't you go get a bag of the lethal? I'll be undressed in the bra...
CARMICHAEL: Foxy Brown, first lady of the Firm.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "AFFIRMATIVE ACTION")
FOXY BROWN: (Rapping) Firm deep, all my n****s hail the blackest sparrow.
MADDEN: Amil, the First Lady of Roc-A-Fella; Eve, the first lady of Ruff Ryders.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WHAT YA WANT")
EVE: (Rapping) Rubia, huh? Papi screaming out of they mouth.
MADDEN: Gangsta Boo, the first lady of Three 6 Mafia; Mia X, the first lady of No Limit - it goes on and on and on.
CARMICHAEL: Every crew followed the formula. The first lady title put rappers on a pedestal, a pedestal with a trapdoor.
IANDOLI: After '97, it was, like, full speed ahead. But where that came to a halt is in 1999 with the advent of Napster. And as soon as the labels were taking a financial hit, you weren't able to figure out who it was that you were going to put your money behind. So now who becomes the casualty? Women. So now it's like, OK, well, we would rather make sure Jay-Z's records come out because Foxy, you're too expensive. And why is Foxy too expensive? Oh, well, hair, makeup. Or Trina, you're too expensive - hair, makeup. You know, you require a bigger stage presence.
Why? Men can rap in sweatpants. And I think, like, again, that's where they furthered that scarcity model. Then it becomes financial scarcity. Well, how much are we willing to budget for one woman because we're not going to pay for two? So sorry, Lady Luck. Foxy Brown has to go on tour.
CARMICHAEL: This fed into the idea that women in rap were expendable, not a necessary part of the equation, not foundational to the culture, but accessories, window dressing. And when times got tight, they were the first to go.
MADDEN: In 2010, Ava DuVernay tracked the shrinkage of the female MC with her documentary, "My Mic Sounds Nice."
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "MY MIC SOUNDS NICE")
SMOKEY D FONTAINE: So if the '80s had, you know, a handful of folks kind of starting the history, the '90s exploded. But then interestingly, in the new decade, in the 2000s, it went back down, you know, so we went from 40 female MCs who were really getting shined to back down to 10, 12 again. And it was slim pickings. It was hard to find, you know, a female MC of any worth who had the support of a major record label.
MADDEN: And according to the doc, by 2010, there were only three women rappers signed to major labels. This reduction took us from an era of many queens to just one.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MONSTER")
MINAJ: (Rapper) Pull up in the monster, automobile gangsta with a bad bitch that came from Sri Lanka. Yeah, I'm in that Tonka, color of Willy Wonka. You could be the King, but watch the Queen conquer.
MADDEN: Now, there was a lot going on during the Nicki Minaj come up, and I don't want to ever pretend it was simple. There's so much noise surrounding Nicki's rise at this point that it's almost hard to remember what the industry was like without her.
CARMICHAEL: Yeah, Nicki's emergence wasn't due to just being the only player on the field. She had to stand on the shoulders of the biggest men in the game, go toe to toe with them and be twice as good.
MADDEN: Nicki reigned from, let's say, 2010 to 2017, going on world tours, dropping Billboard chart-toppers and accomplishing a really successful pop crossover. But because she was the only one who was being pushed on a large scale like that, elevated to the highest heights that rap could reach, her success, if anything, only made the drought more obvious.
CARMICHAEL: And being the queen means you either reign supreme or get conquered 'cause the throne only fits one.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MOTORSPORT")
CARDI B: (Rapping) Yeah, Cardi B, I'm back, b****es. I want to hear I'm acting different. Same lips that be talking about me is the same lips that be a**-kissing.
(SOUNDBITE OF MONTAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: For the last several weeks, rumors have swirled regarding a potential feud between the two female MCs in the wake of Cardi's meteoric rise this summer.
CARDI B: I don't really want problems with anybody. I don't want to be, like, queen. I don't want to be no this. I don't want to be no that. I just want to make music and make money. Like, I really don't...
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #5: The origins of the beef are a little murky. Some point to Nicki name-dropping Cardi's now-husband on Katy Perry's "Swish Swish" in 2017.
MINAJ: The only thing with Cardi that really, really, really hurt my feelings was the first interview she did after "MotorSport" came out. I remember, like, when I first came in the game, if a female of that stature had done a feature with me on it, I would only be, you know, singing their praises and saying, thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MOTORSPORT")
MINAJ: (Rapping) Don't want to smoke with me. This is a laced blunt. Rap's Jackie Chan. We ain't pulling them fake stunts. My crown won't fit on your bum-a** lace fronts.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #6: People have been wanting them to be in a feud since Cardi came out...
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #7: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #6: ...Almost a year ago.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #7: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #6: And they've kind of stayed away from it and gone above it. But now it just seems like they're playing into the narrative that everyone...
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #8: #NickiDay, #Chunli - woo, y'all, this is too much tea for me. My cup runneth over, OK? This is a mess.
IANDOLI: Instead of acknowledging that Nicki was walking down a road that was laid before her and built that road up, here comes Cardi. Instead of acknowledging that Cardi is an extension of that road, what do they call her? A replacement for Nicki. And once again, the cycle continues of saying there could only be one.
CARMICHAEL: What started out as a little unserious drama soon became a full-on beef between two of the biggest rappers in the game. And after a real-life fight at a Fashion Week party, the division only got deeper. To some people, it must have almost felt inevitable. The scarcity math was mathing (ph). The equation had been internalized by the culture. And change did not feel like it would come - until around 2019, when something shifted.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
MEGAN THEE STALLION: It's really, like, a lot of the fans. Like, they really make it seem like...
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: True.
MEGAN THEE STALLION: ...You're picking sides, like - but I really, really, really like both of them.
CARMICHAEL: That's Meg Thee Stallion talking to E News right around the start of Hot Girl Summer - you know, in 2019.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
MEGAN THEE STALLION: You know what I'm saying? Like, they're two different people, two different rappers. Like, it's not even the same. So, like, I feel like we need to stop trying to compare them, you know what I'm saying? But, like, I love both of them, so I would definitely like to collab with Cardi, too.
CARMICHAEL: Cardi or Nicki? That's the question that every rising woman in rap was getting hit with.
MADDEN: But that summer would mark what some have called a renaissance of women in rap - the same renaissance that we've been analyzing all season. And Meg and the other rappers entering the scene - they were questioning the questions. Like, why does there have to be only one queen?
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
IANDOLI: By having Meg be able to collaborate with Nicki and Cardi and, you know, saying with her whole chest that I'm not going to pick a side, you're really saying something, especially at that point with Meg being the - like, one of the top artists.
If we have to talk about who - if we're crowning hip-hop prom king and queen, yes, Meg's the prom queen, right? But Megan, much like Cady Heron in "Mean Girls," broke up her tiara, and she's handing it off to everybody.
I think we're definitely in an era of defying that scarcity model because women now are able to look at the past and know now to not let history repeat itself. And I think that they have the foresight now of watching those things happen and looking and saying, like, let's not repeat that.
KAMILLION: There can be more than one girl from different walks of life that represent totally different things, you know? It's - there's a voice for everybody now, and that's what I love.
CARMICHAEL: On top of portraying a rapper on HBO's "Rap S***," KaMillion is one in real life. And as the crown has been broken up these last couple of years, she's seen how it's changing the game.
KAMILLION: I feel like, you know, there's just - there's more spaces for you to be yourself and to be accepted and go triple platinum and do the same type of numbers...
OSMAN: Yes.
KAMILLION: ...That Nicki did. And you don't have to be Nicki, you know?
MADDEN: Yeah.
OSMAN: Yeah. And you can, like, see yourself reflected, too. I remember going down KaMillion's Instagram, and she had, like, a machine gun, and she was on a ATV. And then in the next one, she was like, and we taking money from these n****s, and we making our own money. And I was like, all of these multitudes in one person is crazy. We've never seen that.
MADDEN: We exist in...
OSMAN: We have...
MADDEN: ...Multitudes. Yup.
OSMAN: Period.
MADDEN: KaMillion's range on her IG represents how wide the space is right now. As fans in this era of hip-hop, we love to know that Meg's obsessed with anime or that Rico Nasty gets a kick out of putting her kid's lunch together or that Flo Milli can't stop binging early 2000s reality TV. Artists are very online and taking control of their own narratives, revealing layers of themselves beyond the glossy magazine covers and label promo.
CARMICHAEL: Their values, their flaws, their humanity comes through a whole lot more. And it's harder to make artists the footnote when they're the main character.
OSMAN: That was so inspiring for me as, like, a young Nebraskan woman who was, like, trying to figure out my sexuality, but I want to wear Carhartt every day, but I also want to be decked out in a Rollie, but I also volunteer. You know what I mean?
(LAUGHTER)
OSMAN: Like, there's so many things that we are and we can be. And it was just so important for me to see her, and that reminds me how important it is to see every single type of woman in rap - Chika, Bktherula, Rico Nasty, Ice Spice.
MADDEN: Yeah.
OSMAN: Come on, it's girls in the Bronx that need that.
KAMILLION: Yeah.
OSMAN: It's - they still need that. It's some girl like, yeah, I love that. That's me.
MADDEN: But that same range caused their on-screen characters to butt heads in the beginning. The way Aida's character, Shawna, sees it, you're either rapping about structural inequality or reinforcing it. But KaMillion's character, Mia, sees things differently.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "RAP S***")
OSMAN: (As Shawna) I really want n****s to think.
KAMILLION: (As Mia) Girl, if a n**** wanted NPR, they'd go get NPR.
OSMAN: (As Shawna) I'm not about to play dress-up for n****s on the internet.
KAMILLION: (As Mia) Girl, you wear masks.
OSMAN: (As Shawna) That's different. My art is not for the male gaze.
KAMILLION: (As Mia) Girl, what the gay n****s got to do with it?
OSMAN: (As Shawna) No, like, male gaze, like, patriarchy s***. N****s be watching what we do.
KAMILLION: (As Mia) I don't get it. What's so wrong with having n****s looking at you?
CARMICHAEL: Mia and Shawna's collaboration on "Rap S***" - it might be fictional, but the way they cut through rap's binary thinking on how women have to be is part of the same shift we're seeing in the real world.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "RAP S***")
OSMAN: (As Mia) (Singing) ...Foreplay, he a felon, beat it like a cold case.
You were right.
KAMILLION: (As Shawna) Period.
OSMAN: (As Mia) I...
KAMILLION: (As Shawna) You feel empowered.
OSMAN: (As Mia) I feel empowered.
KAMILLION: (As Shawna) Yeah.
OSMAN: (As Mia) I feel like a bad b****. So now we're going to do your verse.
KAMILLION: (As Shawna) OK, I want to say something like this.
OSMAN: (As Mia) OK.
KAMILLION: (Singing) Classy. I'm a real b****, but I'm nasty. Ride the d*** good, then I ask where the cash be. Actually, y'all, I got bank, and do you think I give a f*** what you think?
OSMAN: (As Mia) Cutie.
KAMILLION: (As Shawna) You like it?
OSMAN: (As Mia) You're so good. I'm dead. I'm weak. I'm dead. OK, let's run it back.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SEDUCE & SCHEME")
AIDA OSMAN AND KAMILLION: (As Mia & Shawna, rapping) Get my name in it. Go insane in it. Say that p***y too wild, no taming it.
CARMICHAEL: On screen, Aida and KaMillion are reshaping old, crusty narratives and chipping away at the scarcity that underpins all the rules holding the entire culture back. And off screen, artists are not waiting for the culture to play catch-up.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "QUEEN OF THIS S***")
QUAY DASH: (Rapping) B**** you on top now, where you funds at? Click click pow, where your guns at? Show y'all really how to do it, b**** bump that. I'm the queen of this s***, b****, f*** that. B****, I'm on top now.
DASH: I'm gonna do my own thing and do it how I know how to do it. And if y'all don't like it, then that's y'all problem. And I think I come off like that too, with like - lyrically in my music and stuff like that. Like, I say what I want to say. I do what I want to do, and that's that.
CARMICHAEL: Bronx rapper Quay Dash is a Black trans woman who makes boom bap and hyperpop mesh on her tracks while defying all types of hip-hop norms.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "QUEEN OF THIS S***")
DASH: (Rapping) BX broad to the grave. Grew up in the slums, now I'm here for the rage. Pretty Black girl, bet you'll never turn the page. Imma f*****' beast, better keep me in a cage. You's a bum b****. F*** a n**** just to make chips. I'm a rockstar, want a pic? Wanna talk slick? Send her to the pen, call her Bic.
MADDEN: Whether it's on a Versace runway or an episode of HBO's "Euphoria," Quay's voice has been heard in some major pop culture moments. But you might not even know you heard her because she's part of rap's queer foundation that's been sidelined for way too long. And that's because of another variable in the scarcity equation.
DASH: I would hear albums - like, being in a group home growing up, hearing, like, other - like, guys that was in the group home because I grew up in an all-male, you know, group home. I would hear, like, guys listening to, like, Eminem and, like, G-Unit, you know, 50 Cent, all of that, like Cam'ron, Dipset. So I - that's when I knew it was - like, misogyny was real. Then I would just be like, d***, like, I don't want to listen to this.
And, like, one of the staff members, she had bought me a Lil' Kim cassette, and it was the "Hard Core" album. It was definitely, like, you know, some real, like, s*** that I've never heard in my life, you know? And that's when I just started, like, listening more to female rap because it just felt more empowering to hear, like, a woman, you know, say what's really going on out here than to have, like, these men just, like, put them down and make them feel, like, you know, terrible.
MADDEN: Growing up in group homes and at some points not having a home, Quay experienced extreme scarcity in real life. Stability was scarce. Safety was scarce. And she never wanted to replicate that feeling in her music. Her raps were an escape that provided abundance.
DASH: Like, all the negativity that was going on in my life, I was just trying to find a way out. I would just, like, start writing mad different, like, you know, raps and stuff like that. And it started to be ongoing. So it just never stopped for me, you know? I always just made sure I had some good bars and some good lyrics and stuff like that written down somewhere, so for the future, if it came down to me to be a rapper, I'd be set, so yeah.
MADDEN: So you stay ready, so you didn't have to get ready basically.
DASH: Yeah, basically. Basically, yeah.
MADDEN: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
DASH: (Rapping) The CEO, the head honcho roamin' around and smacking b****es in the poncho. These ratchet b****es think they cute, but they not though. I'm 'bout to change up the game and make it pronto.
CARMICHAEL: She carved out a space within New York's underground scene, then cut to the chase with the release of "Transphobic," her debut EP.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TRANSPHOBIC")
DASH: (Rapping) These n****s is p****, be soft like vagina, rocking rainbow like that s*** was designer. Yeah. F*** him on a leather recliner, smudging all my lipstick and my MAC makeup liner. Yeah.
DASH: I don't really want to talk about men on my songs unless I'm talking s***. I really don't want to talk about, like, sex with men, and like, I don't want to talk about that. I know that's what people want to hear, but I want to talk about that. I just feel like I'm better off doing what I've been doing. I'm more of a '90s boom bap, real b**** fly, real s***.
MADDEN: Quay named her project "Transphobic" not only to call out transphobia in hip-hop, but also to call out the erasure of trans identities in it, overall.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "QUEEN OF NY")
DASH: (Rapping) I come through in a vintage outfit. Makeup and hair done - jeans and blouse s***. Correct a chick quick if she try and doubt s***. I'm a homewrecker. I'll f*** your spouse, b****.
DASH: With tracks like "Decline Him" and "Queen Of NY," Quay established herself in what she calls her boss b**** lane, providing bars that uplifted her community, one that's routinely disempowered, and it caught on fast.
CARMICHAEL: Quay knew exactly what she wanted her music to do and who it was for, but when labels came calling, they had a different idea.
DASH: They weren't trying to change anything about me but like - how I'm - how I should look or anything like that. It was more they were trying to change my sound. They were trying to switch me into the more dancey kind of music, and I was like, eh. I can do it. I sound good on that kind of stuff, but I didn't want to be in the same lane as other female artists that might be in the same, you know, category or genre as me. I didn't want to sound like those girls. I didn't want to be like them. I wanted to have, like, my own, you know, sound and make sure that it was hip-hop.
MADDEN: I don't know. I mean, we can speculate, but do you think they were trying to push it more there because of the transphobia that exists in hip-hop and how, like, more welcoming the dance community can be, like...
DASH: Yeah...
MADDEN: ...In terms of marketability?
DASH: Yeah. That's basically what it was. And I wasn't really like - I didn't have a problem with it, but I was just like - in my mind, I was like, girl.
CARMICHAEL: That deal didn't end up going through.
DASH: I can do this independently and do whatever I want to do, without having somebody on my back trying to change anything about me. So I went with that route, and I stuck with it.
MADDEN: I mean, let's keep it a buck. The hip-hop industry has never really supported black trans artists. Like Quay, they're often forced to pursue an independent route. She's currently signed to an indie label out of the U.K. called Supernature Ltd., where she retains all the rights to her music. And while that's dope, independence for a trans rapper doesn't equal the access she'd need to combat scarcity on a major level. So as of now, Quay's directing her focus on different goals. After taking a break from music, her new material is a shift in her vision.
DASH: This one is probably just going to be more focused on, like, cutting edge, edgier, like, sounds. You know what I'm saying? More on the electronic side. You know what I'm saying? But it's still going to be rough. It's still going to be hip-hop. It's still going to be rap because I'm on it. I think it's going to be more of, like, focused on, like, maybe one genre, I think. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe I'll change my mind. Maybe I'll change my mind. But yeah, there's definitely some new music. I'm taking everything day by day and taking my time because you don't got to put out stuff, you know, all fast and rapid. Like, you got to take your time with these things.
CARMICHAEL: Meg's ignoring the tactics of scarcity. Quay's taking hold of a career in spite of it. And Aida and Milli - they're playing with the possibilities of a world without it.
MADDEN: That's what makes this renaissance period so different than any other one in rap's history. But while this time is super inspiring, it's also fragile. If a renaissance is a rebirth of social change, eventually, that infancy ends. And when it does, people either get tired of pushing for change and revert back to the status quo, or we accept something different as the new norm. But new norms are a direct threat to the old ways of doing business. And under capitalism, one thing the business is not going to do is put itself at risk.
CARMICHAEL: So the key to making this renaissance more than a moment is collectively rejecting the idea that there can only be one, from execs and artists to media and stans and everybody in between, because otherwise, scarcity threatens our momentum and keeps us all playing by the same unspoken rules that we've been breaking down all season long.
MADDEN: And, Rodney, you know - we know - what facing down scarcity feels like all too well because LOUDER's been dealing with that same innate pressure from the jump.
CARMICHAEL: No doubt.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
MADDEN: All right, y'all. We've come to the final act of the final episode of our season. And you may or may not know this is the end of the road for LOUDER THAN A RIOT, at least for now. As part of the 10% company-wide layoffs at NPR, LOUDER THAN A RIOT was discontinued, and our team was laid off. So for the last word, we needed to get everybody on a call one more time. First up, we got the senior producer, Gabby Bulgarelli.
GABBY BULGARELLI, BYLINE: Hey, Sid.
MADDEN: Hey. We got producer Sam J. Leeds.
SAM J LEEDS, BYLINE: Don't forget the J.
MADDEN: Oh, never, never that. We got Mano "No Bells" Sundaresan.
MANO SUNDARESAN, BYLINE: What's up, y'all?
MADDEN: And our editor, Soraya Shockley.
SORAYA SHOCKLEY, BYLINE: Hey. What's going on?
MADDEN: And, of course, we got Rodney on the line.
CARMICHAEL: What's up, Sid? So yeah, here we are. And as y'all know, this whole episode has been about scarcity. Really, this whole season has been about scarcity in the industry. And the artists that we've highlighted - how they faced it, how they challenged it and pushed back against it. And lo and behold, here we are. Scarcity has come for us, our own team.
(LAUGHTER)
SHOCKLEY: Rodney, why are you giving me preacher man right now?
SUNDARESAN: No, I love it.
CARMICHAEL: I mean, that's my vibe. What you want from me?
BULGARELLI: I actually love it, though. I actually love it.
SHOCKLEY: OK, OK, OK, OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BULGARELLI: Rodney's like, and here we are.
(LAUGHTER)
BULGARELLI: Scarcity in our own home.
MADDEN: Scammer.
CARMICHAEL: (Laughter). I mean, what can we say? From the beginning, we definitely set out to do something different.
MADDEN: Rodney, I remember when you and I would talk about it after hours at NPR, just, you know, sitting back from your desk at the end of the day. We always had the ambition to wade in the waters of something deeper, like, complicate these stories, show where hip-hop has been a mirror to society and called out the carceral state and the inherent racism of it. And then when we did that in Season 1, we didn't want to keep that same track going into season two 'cause we weren't trying to replicate the perceived criminality.
A lot of the stories we told over the course of the entire series, Season 1 and Season 2, were stories that some people would prefer be left untold because at the core, they interrogate power imbalances that allow hip hop to run as usual. What we really set out to do was interrogate those power imbalances in hopes of starting conversations that will eradicate those imbalances, cultural conversations that will usher in a cultural change.
BULGARELLI: Period.
MADDEN: Period, poo. And we made custom scents with Saucy Santana.
BULGARELLI: I know that's right. I be smelling rich. I think also I just want to call out how inspired I am by everybody on this team and also how much I admire that we were committed to this work not just in the telling of these stories and the making of this show, but also in the way that we live our lives and the place that we do this work, right? Like, I think the issues that we're interrogating stretch beyond just the reporting in the show, but we really try to call out structural imbalances in our lives, at NPR, in podcasting and in hip-hop with this show. And it's very difficult work. It's very draining and demanding work, but I think we were very supportive to each other throughout that. And I'm just really inspired and proud of everybody for remaining committed to that and powering through it.
SUNDARESAN: You said, like, commitment, Gabby. And I'm thinking about, like, how we were so committed also to telling the stories exactly how we want to tell them. And I think there is a version of this podcast that would have maybe been more generous to the artists and easier and maybe even given us more access to artists that we didn't see on this season going into the models of more traditional hip-hop media right now, which is all about access and all about, you know, doing favors and all about basically, at its worst, PR. And instead of that, we actually said what we wanted to say. We ruffled feathers with some of these episodes, visibly and behind the scenes.
BULGARELLI: I know that's right.
SUNDARESAN: Yeah. We don't have to talk about that. But...
(LAUGHTER)
SUNDARESAN: And I think it's really inspiring that we challenge each other on that front, like, in these meetings, writing these episodes. And it also kind of makes me feel a little sad because I'm not sure when the next time I'll be in a position where I can tell stories exactly this way, with this level of resources and at the same time challenging the structures that be.
BULGARELLI: Yeah. I feel that really deeply. The way that we told stories wasn't about showing just the good side of any experience or just the good side of anyone's artistry, but showing, like, the full nuance...
MADDEN: Yeah.
BULGARELLI: ...Of what each story held. And I think by doing that, we're allowing for a world to exist where people just give each other more care because we're all just, like, kind of dealing with these systems of power that are, like, over all of us. And being able to be honest about that allows us to show up more fully for each other. And that's just so rare. And I wish that there was more space and more time committed by the people that are funding this kind of work to allow for that to exist.
MADDEN: I think what we really accomplished this season was showing that complexity, how you're saying, Sam. We show so much more of the multitudes of these situations that normally get deduced to trending topics or hot takes or fleeting headlines. That's how this culture gets flattened, when it just becomes all the good stuff, i.e. the PR, the profiles, the shiny, glossy cover shoot, the artists talking to artists, the fluff.
And I don't believe there is not an audience appetite for this. I think it's more about who's in the driver's seat when it comes to the coin when it comes to really investing and investing long term to build a community, to build audience on a consistent level. And I would like to see more of the people who hold the purse strings be down for the long haul, too. And I think if there was just more ownership and agency from jump about the intention of the work, that could really shift the paradigm.
BULGARELLI: We know that people are interested in it. We know that hip-hop fans want to interrogate the culture, want to challenge it to be better. We know that hip-hop fans are truth seekers. We know that hip-hop deserves this kind of attention, but also this kind of dissection interrogation. It deserves that.
SHOCKLEY: And care.
BULGARELLI: And care. And the...
MADDEN: Yeah.
BULGARELLI: ...Patience and drive to get it right is really missing right now. I've been really committed to doing this type of work. Every show that I've worked on has ended up canceled. And so I think being dealt this latest blow is especially hard to stomach because it felt like not only was it a show about hip-hop, but it was a show that was unapologetically committed to getting it right. And, yeah, I'm just really mourning that loss.
LEEDS: I think the thing about scarcity is that when resources are scarce, people tend to also limit their imaginations. And if you're operating from a place of scarcity out of fear, you're just going to keep recreating that same thing over and over again. And, you know, it's like the same kind of conversation that we have when we talk about abolition or when we talk about building a more equitable world - right? - like people get stuck on, like, reform. And it's like, what if we actually imagined, you know, something different? What if we stopped trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?
Bringing it back to our team, like, we came into this with so much imagination. We spent so much time imagining what the season could look like. And then we took a hard look at our resources, and we took a hard look at our time, and we made some decisions about what was actually possible. But it was built out of a place of abundance. It was built out of a place where every single person on this team got to contribute ideas, got to bring in what they wanted to work on and got to bring their voice to it.
MADDEN: Yeah.
LEEDS: And I think, like, that's what made the season what it is, is coming from that place instead of a place of like, oh, we only get to do this one thing, or we only get to feature this one story. The results of that to me are something that I'm really proud of.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
MADDEN: On that note, can we just spill to the people some of the other stories that, you know, we did work on or we tried to get to and because of time and space and bandwidth and, Mano, to your point, access, we couldn't all the way execute but that we're still percolating on? Does anyone have one that they would want to share?
SHOCKLEY: Yeah. I mean, we spent a really good amount of time with Flo Milli, who was a delight.
FLO MILLI: I want women to be strong. I want them to know, like, you can have this confidence about yourself. Or if you don't, like, here's something. It's like a gym, like, you know, that I want to show women like, this is my persona, this is my attitude. And you could feel like that, too.
SHOCKLEY: Oh, my gosh. There is some tape that we don't use...
MADDEN: Yo.
SHOCKLEY: ...For the Rico Nasty episode, which is Sid and Gabby...
MADDEN: Oh, my gosh.
SHOCKLEY: ...Following Rico around in the rain at Broccoli City...
MADDEN: It was freezing that day.
BULGARELLI: Oh, my God. On the back of a golf cart.
SHOCKLEY: ...That's just so good.
MADDEN: Yeah.
BULGARELLI: It was her 25th birthday. That was - oh, my God.
MADDEN: Yo, that was crazy. They brought her a cake onstage and she ate it with her bare hands.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
RICO NASTY: When I scooped the f***ing cake up...
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #9: I was like, Rico, not the nails.
RICO NASTY: That was such an intrusive thing to do.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #9: The nails.
RICO NASTY: Like, I didn't even mean to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #9: She said...
RICO NASTY: My brain was just like, do it. I was like, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #10: When the dude passed by us with the cake, I was like, look at the damage. Look at, like (laughter) - why did she do that?
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #9: I'm glad you didn't to do that to...
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #10: And then you're trying to hold the mic and still sing with this hand, all this icing.
RICO NASTY: Oh, my God.
MADDEN: We tried for a few people who really wanted to be compensated in some ways, who wanted to be paid or wanted to have some type of...
SHOCKLEY: Y'all, how expose is this third act? Like, are we airing all of our...
MADDEN: No, I'm just saying.
BULGARELLI: I was going to say, like, I don't know if we have to go there. I don't know if we have to go there.
SHOCKLEY: ...All of our dirty laundry.
BULGARELLI: There's a director's cut somewhere of the body policing episode. There's so much amazing stuff on the cutting room floor...
SHOCKLEY: Oh, the dancers.
BULGARELLI: ...For that episode. We talked to the - yeah, the dancers from Doechii's music video.
SASHA RIVERO: We were all different body types. All these beautiful Black women were being represented in all phases, in all shapes and sizes. It made me happy because I was like, yes, everyone, be free, be naked (laughter).
KRYSS HICKS: I felt very confident doing this as a woman completely naked. I just felt very free as well, like I could really do movement like this and not feel like this is to please the male eye or any eye, for that matter.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
SHOCKLEY: I mean, and another one, like, in that vein said is that for our episode that features Kim Osorio, there were - Kim herself, but also multiple sources that just did not feel comfortable being on record. And that's...
MADDEN: Yep.
SHOCKLEY: ...You know, I think that's the episode that I think so much about, in that if I ever get a chance to revisit that exact episode again some later time, I probably would because it's a real indictment of where we still stand...
MADDEN: Yes.
SHOCKLEY: ...In terms of alleged sexual harassment and abuse and just how much society and the legal system really makes it challenging for people to speak up or, honestly, impossible for them to speak up.
MADDEN: Yeah. I really wish we could have had more space - and it could have been a separate episode - to have a meditation about deep-seated colorism and the social capital that's placed on looking racially ambiguous in a Black-a** art form. Related to that, there could have been great storytelling we could have done, if we had time and space, dissecting the inherent fatphobia that exists in this culture.
BULGARELLI: Something that we did in almost every single interview - and we did over 60, I think, for this season - was we asked almost everyone we spoke to to imagine a future of hip-hop that was more equitable, and to close their eyes and just, for a second, just, like, dream with us. And we always got back the most amazing answers. And I think we had always talked about doing some sort of visions of Black hip-hop, futurity, crazy ambi dreamscape moment that we're going to put them all together. And, you know, we just kind of ran out of time. But maybe you'll hear that right now.
(SOUNDBITE OF MONTAGE)
MADDEN: What does the future look and feel and sound like?
CARMICHAEL: What's your dream for the future of hip-hop? What do you want to see?
MADDEN: What do you want the future hip-hop to sound like?
CARMICHAEL: From hip-hop..
MADDEN: For women...
CARMICHAEL: ...In the future?
MADDEN: What comes to mind?
BABY TATE: I am the future (laughter).
MOYA BAILEY: Misogynoir doesn't exist.
LYTE: Community. It's about caring and sharing, each one teach one.
ROSA CLEMENTE: I want for younger women to be safe. I want them to be able to be imaginative.
SAUCY SANTANA: Gay as f***.
MADDEN: It's the gays and the girls?
SESALI BOWEN: The gays and the girls (laughter).
RICO NASTY: We see a lot of nonbinary and transgender people becoming the face of a genre, like, killing it. That is the direction that we're going.
DASH: Definitely more female. Definitely more feminist. Definitely more Black and just with the vibes.
FLO MILLI: Confidence, boldness, fierceness, more owning of who we are.
MONIE LOVE: Several labels that are owned by women.
DOECHII: More women breaking the standard.
DREAMDOLL: Charts is filled up with females. That's what I'm waiting for.
ILOVEMAKONNEN: More accepted and moving to the forefront.
LATTO: We are just rewriting everything, like, being there for each other. I think we're headed in a good path.
TARANA BURKE: Making space for the plethora of women rappers who have a lot to say.
SHANITA HUBBARD: We're really going to have to put some power behind our words, right? If we really want this, we're going to have to start divesting from artists that do harm.
MONIE LOVE: I'm not saying everything, but I'm saying everything.
DREAMDOLL: No boy zone.
DOECHII: We can be limitless.
OMERETTA THE GREAT: They owe us everything we deserve.
DASH: Now it's time for our voices to be heard.
CARMICHAEL: Do you see it coming soon?
MITCH COPELAND: Do I see it coming soon? Definitely.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
CARMICHAEL: I hope, honestly, that everybody listening, especially cats like me who may have been learning along the way, really get a lot out of this because whether it's hip hop or "the culture," quote-unquote, or what have you, we just - we got some growing to do. And that's OK. You know what I'm saying? And I feel like the thing that this culture and this genre were founded on was about us breaking through the doors, breaking down barriers and giving a voice to the unheard. And if we ain't still doing that now, I don't know if it can be rightly called hip-hop. The truth is, hip-hop in a lot of ways is kind of one of the powers that be now...
MADDEN: It is.
CARMICHAEL: ...You know? And so now a lot of the kind of rigorous journalism that we're talking about doesn't necessarily really serve the industry in the ways that it might have served, you know, the culture and the people, you know, consuming hip-hop all throughout, you know. Where we are now, if you don't serve the machine, if you ain't feeding the machine or helping to churn the machine, the machine is trying to eat you up, you know. And that's what's happened to us. And I think that's what's happening to a lot of music journalism.
And I hope that all of us in our own individual - not hope, I know - in our own individual, you know, paths that we take from here are going to continue to do that, be it in the world of journalism or in the, you know, motherf***ing real world, you know what I'm saying? So that I'm not worried about. And that just means we're going to reproduce more of the same and affect more of the same, which is hopefully real change, you know? So that's all I got.
MADDEN: All right, y'all, this is it. Thanks for listening. Thanks for rocking with us all these seasons, talking back to us on Twitter and supporting us every step of the way. I'm Sidney Madden.
BULGARELLI: I'm Gabby Bulgarelli.
LEEDS: I'm Sam J. Leeds.
SUNDARESAN: I'm Mano Sundaresan.
SHOCKLEY: I'm Soraya Shockley.
CARMICHAEL: I'm Rodney Carmichael. And this right here, this team right here, this LOUDER THAN A RIOT.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
MADDEN: LOUDER THAN A RIOT is hosted by me, Sidney Madden, and Rodney Carmichael.
CARMICHAEL: This episode was written by the entire team. And it was produced by Gabby Bulgarelli, Mano Sundaresan, Sam J. Leeds and Rhaina Cohen.
MADDEN: LOUDER's senior producer is Gabby Bulgarelli. Our producers are Sam J. Leeds and Mano Sundaresan, with help from Rhaina Cohen. Our editor is Soraya Shockley.
CARMICHAEL: Our engineer for this episode is Josh Newell. And shout out to Gilly Moon, who handled engineering every other episode with tender, loving audio care. Our senior supervising producer is Cher Vincent. Our project managers are Margaret Price and Lyndsey McKenna.
MADDEN: Our interns are Jose Sandoval, Teresa Xie and Pilar Galvan. And the NPR execs are Keith Jenkins, Yolanda Sangweni and Anya Grundmann.
CARMICHAEL: Original theme by Kassa Overall, remix by Suzi Analogue.
MADDEN: And the scoring for this episode was provided by Suzi Analogue and Kassa Overall.
CARMICHAEL: Our digital editors are Jacob Ganz, Sheldon Pearce and Daoud Tyler Ameen. Our visual and social team is Alante Serene, Ashley Pointer, Jackie Lay, Otis Hart, Iman Young and Matt Adams. Peace out, bruh.
MADDEN: Our fact checker for this episode is Brin Winterbottom. And shoutout to the whole team over at Rad who held us down all season with some impeccable fact-checking. Thank you to Ashley Messenger, our bomb-a** lawyer, thank you to our Season 1 crew, and thank you to all the ATL member stations we taped at - WABE and GPB.
We appreciate you for talking to us back on Twitter and emailing us at [email protected]. Check the Twitter if you want to see more BTS of this season and find out where you can follow everybody.
CARMICHAEL: And to all our loved ones who supported us while we struggled and strived through making this season, this series, from scraps, from nothing, from the bottom, thank you the most.
MADDEN: We love you for real.
CARMICHAEL: From NPR Music, I'm Rodney Carmichael.
MADDEN: And I'm Sidney Madden.
RODNEY CARMICHAEL AND SIDNEY MADDEN: And this is LOUDER THAN A RIOT.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #11: Are you a huge LOUDER fan? What if I told you you could buy your very own LOUDER soundboard, complete with classic LOUDER sounds like...
CARMICHAEL: Wham.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #11: ...And...
MADDEN: Be-ow (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #11: ...And of course...
MADDEN: Eow, eow, eow (ph).
CARMICHAEL: You should keep them little noises in there, too.
MADDEN: Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #11: LOUDER's S2 soundboard is out now. Visit the NPR store and use code LOUDER to get yours.
MADDEN: Let's go. Bow.
CARMICHAEL: Bow.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
Copyright © 2023 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.