< A deep dive into Cuba's rich musical history, reported from Havana

ANAMARIA SAYRE, HOST:

Felix - you know, I had a Cuban restaurant I used to go to when I was a kid, and it was called Felix's.

FELIX CONTRERAS, HOST:

You're kidding.

SAYRE: Yeah. They still know me because I love the arroz con leche so much.

CONTRERAS: Well, you have to tell them now that you actually had a chance to go to Havana with Felix.

(SOUNDBITE OF ENGINE RUNNING)

CONTRERAS: From NPR Music, this is ALT.LATINO. I'm Felix Contreras.

SAYRE: And I'm Anamaria Sayre. Let the chisme begin.

CONTRERAS: And this week, the chisme had a Cuban accent, because that was the sound of us in Havana, Cuba, in late January, when you and I and NPR music executive producer Suraya Mohamed went on a, quote-unquote, "vacation."

SAYRE: Yeah. A real vacation with coworkers, Felix.

CONTRERAS: It worked out. It was a lot of fun. We went to the 39th Annual Jazz Plaza, the big international jazz festival there, where we took in lots of music and got a chance to see a lot of Cuba.

SAYRE: We stayed in Havana and got to see one of the oldest cities in Latin America. Honestly, Felix, I was completely unprepared. I had never seen a city like this - one of the most impressive places I've ever been with the colorful colonial buildings, the old cars. It's really amazing.

CONTRERAS: And it was a lot of fun to get your impressions. Because that was your first visit. I've been there three times. I was there in 2016, 2020, and then this year in 2024. And each time it's a different dynamic based on the geopolitics, just observations about what's going on in the world that's enabled me to speak with a little bit of knowledge about what's going on in Cuba.

SAYRE: And you know, Felix, I'm so excited to share some of what we saw there because I had so many questions based on what I observed. And luckily, you had a good amount of knowledge about the history of the island, the types of sounds that exist there, and what the music sounds like today. So I'm really excited to share this conversation we had on the ground in Cuba.

CONTRERAS: Let's click our heels and go back to Havana.

SAYRE: I - honestly, I think I didn't really mentally prepare myself. I don't know that I've ever been somewhere where I've had to challenge my own eyeballs more. Like, everything you see here, to me, like, you really have to think about it because, visually, it's really striking. It's so full of people, of life. I mean, you walk around, and it's like the buildings themselves feel ancient and not very well kept up. But the people - there's so much happening at any given moment, no matter where you are. I mean, the buses are full. The halls are full. The music is spilling out of every single window.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTIST: (Singing, inaudible)

CONTRERAS: There are so many different layers of Cuba.

SAYRE: I think there's so many perceptions, in the U.S., specifically, around the world, around what Cuba is - what Cuba looks like, what Cuba feels like, how people live in Cuba. But what's amazing to me is we're living in this incredible moment where globalization is everywhere, and it's visible in music. And I don't think here is an exception to that.

CONTRERAS: Cuba has been historically this sponge that absorbs stuff from all around the world and then reflected back in this amazing product that's unlike anything else in the Spanish-speaking world.

SAYRE: And that's another thing that I just completely did not have a concept of. I mean, you are like the Afro Cuban jazz guy. You have covered Cuban music for ages, and you have been explaining to me slowly over the course of this trip - like, I didn't understand just how deep, diverse, rich, widely influenced the music here is. I mean, it's so much, I think, a product of a really rich history, culture and political change that's happening. I mean, why does the music that we listen to this week sound the way that it does? What are the influences that we're seeing played out here?

CONTRERAS: Africa - it all goes back to Africa. It all goes back to the unfortunate part of history that was the slave trade throughout the, quote-unquote, so-called "New World." And you have to understand that the difference between the United States and the rest of the New World - in the U.S., the Africans were not allowed to keep their drums. So they developed this vocal tradition that eventually became gospel music, blues, all that stuff, right? That's a very simplistic version. In the rest of the world, they were allowed to keep their drums, so that when it mixed with the Indigenous populations in Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela, and especially here in Cuba, when it mixed - Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic - it had its own flavor. And it's all based on the drum. It's all based on rhythmic. And it all goes back to Africa. I think that's the most striking difference and the strongest influence here, when we're talking specifically about Cuba.

SAYRE: You know, the other day, a few days into our trip, we went to that traditional rumba show where we got to be in the city, in the center of Central Havana, and we got to watch people play what was rhythmically, stylistically, very much of that Afro Cuban tradition that you're talking about. You played a little bit of congas. I think you cried after you played. You were so moved (laughter).

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTISTS: (Singing, inaudible)

CONTRERAS: It's a very, very famous place called Callejon de Hamel, the neighborhood there. But it's become this - it's a cultural center. It's a peña, una peña. It's a place where every Sunday at noon, they're going to come and play Afro Cuban rumba, traditional rumba. And they're dressed in white. They dance. They sing. They do all that stuff. It's very, very famous. It's been around for a very long time. They're played there whether there's tourists there or not.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTISTS: (Singing, inaudible)

CONTRERAS: We'll be back with our conversation about Cuba right after this.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

SAYRE: And we're back with our conversation about Cuba.

(SOUNDBITE OF VEHICLE GOING BY)

SAYRE: You know what's interesting is, I got here and I think I almost had this idea that because people are like, oh, it's this controlling government - to me in my head, controlling government equals, like, socially limiting. And I don't know if that's what's happening here. And that's what's really fascinating to me is, like, people are out till 6, 7 in the morning. Where does that live within what is considered, like, a communist dictatorship? Be honest, tío.

CONTRERAS: I think - to be clear, I'm of Mexican American background, as you know, and as many listeners know. I'm not Cuban. I've not spent any time living here. I have over the years developed lots of friendships with people who are from the island, who live on the island, who are familiar with the culture and the history. So this is my perspective. I think it's a form of release. I think it's a form of a way of life, of getting around whatever geopolitics has created in this country - shortages, restrictions, tensions, what some call repression. You know, I think that the music and the culture is a release. It's a way to declare whatever's going on, this is who we are.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTISTS: (Singing, inaudible).

CONTRERAS: When I was here the first time in 2016, I was walking around central Havana, Havana Central, and I took a break, I bought a bottle of water, sat down and took a break and just watch the world go by. And it's packed full of these, like you said, old colonial-style buildings that are just jam-packed full of people and not always in the best living conditions. And I was sitting there, and it was a father and a son. They were both Black. They were walking down the street, and I'm listening in on the conversation. And what I remember hearing them say in Spanish is recuerda, somos africanos primero y, luego, cubanos - remember, mijo, remember, son, that we're Africans first, and then we're Cubans. And that's the little snippet of conversation that I had. You can see people dressed in white as they're receiving their Santeria santos, as part of the tradition. You see these people wearing their collars, these collares with beaded - colored beads and relating to whatever orisha that they have devoted their life to or have been selected to.

SAYRE: I almost want to say there's this fierceness with which you hold on to things like identity, background, primarily music is a representation of that, when a lot of external factors feel threatening or unsafe or insecure, whatever it might be. Like, it can - the same can be said about a lot of Latinos in the U.S., right? Like, we do culture, we do music with this ferocity, with this energy, when it feels as though at times, like, other things can feel uncontrollably threatening. And it almost feels like there's a sense of that to me, with the energy with which people still love and approach and connect with different parts of their culture and with the music here.

(SOUNDBITE OF CAR HORN)

CONTRERAS: I can see that. I'd agree with that. I think that that's relatable. I think that the same thing can be said with - in the Southwest, along the Texas-Mexican border, right? Over the decades, well over a century, there's always been repression. There's always been marginalization. So then things like accordions and then, you know, tubas and all the things that make Mexican music, even mariachi, violins and stuff, all of that stuff becomes a source of, you know, we're going to hold on to this because this is our identity, because we're getting threatened, we're getting marginalized from all around. But this is still who we are, and this is going to help us survive this. I think that that's part of that here in Cuba. And in other places where there's African culture still very strong. We've covered a lot of Afro Colombian music on ALT.LATINO, lots of Afro Venezuelan music, Afro Peruvian music. I think that that is part of a way to hold on to identity.

(SOUNDBITE OF ORLANDO "CACHAITO" LÓPEZ'S "REDENCION")

SAYRE: And I think here, in many ways it does feel like almost a microcosm for what is the extreme diversity of Latin America, the extreme, you know, paradoxical nature at times. I mean, everything here to me feels like contrast - everything from the music to the experiences to what's happening, to what makes sense. I mean, it's all, like, deeply contrasted to me. And that contrast is beautiful, and it's what makes a lot of Latin America beautiful. To be Latino is to be contrast innately. But one thing you said specifically about a lot of the Afro Cuban music we've covered on the show - it takes me back to cumbia. It takes me back to the fact that - you know, you've talked about on the show - it's inspired by the slave trade. It's literally a dance that you can dance in shackles. And so that, too, I'm curious if - here, the Afro Cuban experience - if a lot of the rhythms, the sounds, the things we experience here have been - there's been an intercambio with other parts of Latin America.

CONTRERAS: Not a lot, because the influence here is so strong. What's been a major influence has been the United States. You know, there's - going back - and not just in this contemporary era - going back to the 19th century - right? - New Orleans was considered the northernmost port of Cuba because of the - it's just right across, right? Sailors would take the music back to New Orleans. There's a strong Cuban influence in the birth of jazz. The give and take between the United States and Cuba, I think, is the strongest relationship.

You know, my first show here in 2016, I called it "While The Politicians Argued, The Musicians Jammed," and that's always been the case. Whether or not there's some kind of political wall between the countries, the music just flows. And I think that when you're asking about influence from other parts of Latin America - the United States, 'cause the United States is part of Latin America (laughter). That's an old Latino perspective.

SAYRE: (Laughter).

CONTRERAS: You know, it is a Latin American country.

SAYRE: But you know what, Felix, is something that I think maybe a lot of people don't think about, or at least something I didn't think about, is what you're referencing, which is Havana has been a topic of conversation since well before, you know, it was a government next door that feels really different from ours. Like, it's something that you explained to me when we got here. Like, this was where a lot of the jazz giants used to come and play and hang out and be billed. And then after the revolution, it became, you know, heavily influenced by these classical Russian musicians who came and created these very classical training programs. I mean, there has always been, like, these intense changes here that have created, like, intense musical shifts. I mean, that's - like, what are the most marked shifts that have happened here?

CONTRERAS: Those are two of the most significant - like, pre-revolution, this was - you know, for better or worse, it was a playground for Americans to come here, like Las Vegas is now, right? Before it became a family place, it was Sin City. Whatever happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Same thing here. It was - there was lots of gambling. There was lots of drinking. There was lots of prostitution. There were American mobsters here running the hotels. They needed entertainment. And so that's where the - you know, the Tropicana, all of these musicians - Cuban musicians - they ended up playing for and with American musicians and singers and vocalists who would come to spend time here just to relax. So that was a significant part of the history.

(SOUNDBITE OF BEBO VALDÉS' "CHA CHA CHA EN TROPICANA")

CONTRERAS: The turning point, again, as you pointed out, was when the Russian influence came. They imposed this strict Russian classically based music education in the music conservatories here. That's why - we just saw Roberto Fonseca last night at the Teatro Nacional, and he broke into some, you know, amazing classical performance in the middle of playing Afro Cuban music.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

CONTRERAS: That was another turning point, and I think that - I've had numerous conversations this trip with some friends who I've made here over the years. The consensus is that when Cuba's going through hard times is when the music digs in. In the '90s, when timba was developed, there was a problem with getting resources from Russia. It was a very difficult time. This dance form called timba - it's funky. It's like salsa on steroids. They included funk from the United States. They included a new way of playing the mambo, all of this stuff.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PA'MI GENTE")

HAVANA D'PRIMERA: (Singing) Vengo con la pretensión de conquistar al mundo… Aunque te parezca duro todo es positive… Solo con mis sentimientos… Con la fuerza que llevo adentro… Vengo a regalarte aquello por lo que he vivido… Soy un loco soñador que no le teme a nada… Un guerrero de la música que nunca para…

CONTRERAS: It's still, like, a major influence. So timba in the '90s, shortly after that is when hip-hop developed - again, the younger people developing a reaction to shortages, changes in government, changes in situation. And now there's - the Cuban version of reggaeton is becoming a thing.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PÍDEME")

CUBANITO 20.02: (Singing) ¡Pruébalo! Pide lo que quieras mi amor… Derrama toda tu alma en mí… Yo te apagaré tu dolor… Solo yo te haré feliz… Pide lo que quieras mi amor… Derrama toda tu alma en mí… Yo te apagaré tu dolor… Solo yo te haré feliz… Mi corazón, por ti yo moriría…

SAYRE: Felix, do you remember yesterday we went down to that art market down on the water? Lots of beautiful, beautiful, beautiful art - I mean, everywhere you look, it's like this island is exploding with arts, with music, with culture that's just waiting to be seen, to be heard, to be known everywhere in the world. And we went down to this market. And do you remember what that artist said to us about his art?

CONTRERAS: No.

SAYRE: He showed us one of his paintings, which I thought was kind of weird, but you liked it - whatever. You were asking him about, you know, what are the options, if you can buy it, and he's like, yeah, it's kind of sad. It's kind of, like, a little, like, disturbing and sad. And I was looking at it, and I was like, yeah, that's why I'm not a huge fan. You liked it 'cause you're weird.

CONTRERAS: (Laughter).

SAYRE: And he was like, well, this is how I have to create because this is a reflection of life here, and not everything is happy. Not everything is perfect. And it has to include some of the sad parts, some of the heavy parts. And it makes so much sense, everything you just said. Like, of course, you know? When you live in a place where - if you feel like you can't necessarily stand in the street and be as vocal as you want to be about every single thing in your life that's hard or pesado or whatever it might be, the art has to be that expression. I mean, like I said, it's bursting at the seams with culture. It's like every single experience, all of these changes you're talking about political, social, culturally, they're just - be waiting to be heard.

CONTRERAS: It's part of the tradition of artists reacting to the result of colonialism in Latin America. Same thing can be said in Africa - right? - or any part where there was - where, you know, there was a colonialism and impacted life.

SAYRE: Does it have to be as direct as saying like, this is how I feel about this government, or is it just people who are really channeling through that expression that we're talking about? - which - obviously we talk about that in a lot of places and countries across Latin America. It's not just here, and it's not always explicit.

CONTRERAS: What did Ana Tijoux say in the show that we did a few weeks ago? Living is the best revenge against death. The same thing can be said. Living well is the best revenge against oppression - right? - just being able to express yourself in any number of the bands 'cause there's so many different styles and genres.

You know, you could land here with a group of musical friends and say, heavy metal head, go find heavy metal, and you'll find it. Hip-hop head, go find hip-hop, and you'll find it. Classical, go find classical, and you'll find it. Tradition, Afro Cuban, rumba, whatever - there's so many different styles and genres happening here and stuff being developed that's not being developed anywhere around the world. Just living well and expressing yourself like that, I think, is a form of speaking out and holding your own against the things that sometimes make life difficult for you physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "REPRESENT CUBA")

ORISHAS: (Singing) ¡Eh! Mi música… Represent, Represent… ¡Cuba! Orishas underground de La Habana… Represent, Represent… ¡Cuba! ¡Eh! Tu música… Ven que te quiero cantar de corazón así… la historia de mis raíces… Rumba son y guaguancó todo mezclado… pa que lo bailes tú… Mira, no hay quién no baila en la Habana… Candidato, pa rumbear en la cadencia… Represento a mis ancestros toda la mezcla… No lo pierdas, bro… Yo, latino americano de La Habana… Te lo mando con sabor mejor… Aprenderás que en la rumba esta la esencia… que mi guaguancó es sabroso y tiene buena mezcla… ¿Tú ves? A mi vieja y linda Habana… Sentimiento de mañana todo eso representas… ¡Cuba!

SAYRE: To me, it's a reminder of, like, the importance of listening to this music, of caring about this music, of noticing the differences, the nuance, the value, the meaning in this music because it's so easy to look at a headline or to look at what people say about this country and limit it to - boil it down to, you know, talking about the government or perceptions, ideas, assumptions about what life is like here. But these artists need to be heard to be understood about what it means to be Cuban, and what it means to be Cuban is influenced by the political situation here, but it's really, ultimately, only one factor in a million.

CONTRERAS: That's - I think that's one of the main misconceptions that people have about Cuba, that it's been isolated and blocked off. We're the only country that blocks it. And musicians travel all over Europe, all over Asia, all over Africa.

SAYRE: I mean, Felix, I was up 5 a.m. in the middle of the night, and I hear this music coming out of the courtyard, and you would never believe. Guess what I heard? Banda (laughter) blasting through the halls of this hotel. And you know what? I was like, OK. Reír para no llorar, you know? It's all the same. And we all find something to love in each other's music. And why not find banda to be something that makes sense here, or find Afro Cuban beats to be something that makes sense in Mexico City, you know?

CONTRERAS: That is one of the reasons why Jasmine Garsd and I started this show almost 14 years ago, to close that circle on all of this stuff all over Latin America, all cultures, all musics, what we have in common and what we appreciate from one another. And so I'm glad you were able to experience that bit of banda in the hallway here in Havana, Cuba.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

CONTRERAS: Before we go, we want to tell you about a new offering we have here at NPR. It's called NPR Music+.

SAYRE: NPR Music+ is a new way to support our work and public radio. When you sign up, you can get access to a special feed of this show, ALT.LATINO, where you can listen to all of our episodes sponsor free.

CONTRERAS: And you also get to listen to our sister show, All Songs Considered, sponsor free.

SAYRE: Now, nothing is changing about our regular show, but NPR Music+ is just another way to show your support of public media and get some extra perks, too.

CONTRERAS: So go sign up. You can find out more at plus.npr.org/nprmusic, or search for NPR Music in Apple Podcasts.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

SAYRE: You have been listening to ALT.LATINO from NPR Music. Our audio producer for this episode is Suraya Mohamed, with production support from Joaquin Cotler. Our editor is Hazel Cills. And the woman who keeps us on track is Grace Chung.

CONTRERAS: The executive producer of NPR music is Suraya Mohamed.

SAYRE: And our jefe-in-chief is Keith Jenkins, VP of music and visuals.

CONTRERAS: I'm Felix Contreras.

SAYRE: And I'm Anamaria Sayre. Thank you for listening.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

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