BRITTANY LUSE, HOST:
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luse, and you're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
(SOUNDBITE OF MOLLY LEWIS' SONG "CRUSHED VELVET")
LUSE: The clear, high-pitched melody you just heard was not a bird. That wasn't a flute. That was a whistler. Allow me to introduce you to America's whistling sweetheart, Molly Lewis. And today, we're going to get all up in her mind.
MOLLY LEWIS: I have been whistling now for 30 years probably. My parents decided to show me this documentary called "Pucker Up." It's about the international whistling competition.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC, WHISTLING)
LEWIS: And that was the first time I'd ever seen professional whistlers performing classical pieces and operatic songs, and I kind of realized that I could whistle like they could. And that was quite a realization.
LUSE: Since then, Molly has earned titles at some of the biggest whistling competitions in the country, including the Masters of Musical Whistling competition in LA. And chances are, you've probably heard her before. Her whistling was featured in the "Barbie" movie, where she whistled the cover of Billie Eilish's "What Was I Made For?" She's also performed alongside rappers and indie icons like Caroline Polachek and Karen O. And Molly isn't just whistling other people's tunes. She's making her own music, melodies that whisk you away and set you down softly. She's doing exactly that with her new album "On The Lips."
(SOUNDBITE OF MOLLY LEWIS' "SONNY")
LUSE: And let me tell you, her music has really expanded my ideas about musical performance and gotten me to think about what it means to turn a soothing pastime into an art. I sat down with Molly in NPR's New York offices, and I feel so lucky because she didn't just welcome me into the world of whistling. She also performed some tunes live.
(SOUNDBITE OF MOLLY LEWIS' "CRUSHED VELVET")
LUSE: Stick around.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
LUSE: Molly, welcome to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE.
LEWIS: Thank you so much for having me.
LUSE: Oh, my gosh. It's our pleasure. This is exciting. This is an auspicious day 'cause obviously, we're going to have a chat. We're also going to hear your craft. So many people who are going to be listening to this, you know, have had the experience of whistling. But there are very few people on Earth who can whistle as you do. How does it make you feel? How does whistling make you feel?
LEWIS: Oh, I mean, it makes me feel wonderful. It's access to this other realm. It's like another dimension, you know? Being connected to music and I kind of sometimes call it, like, the whistle zone - because you can't smile and whistle. You can't laugh and whistle, and that was kind of the big hurdle for me, was getting over nerves and not breaking into laughter that this is what I'm doing in front of a group of people.
(SOUNDBITE OF MOLLY LEWIS' "CRUSHED VELVET")
LEWIS: And so I have to concentrate very deeply, and it's quite meditative for me in this other kind of state, but I love doing it.
(SOUNDBITE OF MOLLY LEWIS' "CRUSHED VELVET")
LUSE: I want to back up for a second with this whole whistling competition space. Like, tell me a bit more about that. What is it like?
LEWIS: Well, gosh, if you've ever seen a Christopher Guest film...
LUSE: (Laughter).
LEWIS: ...It's like a Christopher Guest movie come to life. I cannot believe it's real - the characters, the scene. Whenever I go, I wish I had, like, a GoPro attached to my head at all times because it's just surreal. There's one in Los Angeles, the Masters of Musical Whistling, and then there's one in Tokyo, which I've never been to, but I'd like to go just, you know.
LUSE: I have a feeling you'll get there, but yeah.
LEWIS: I just kind of want to go to Tokyo. I don't really believe in a whistling competition. What I love about whistling is the artistry, the soulfulness, the beauty and - isn't necessarily the thing that's going to win the top prize. I mean, I don't really know how the judging works. They want you to do "Flight Of The Bumblebee" or something very complex and complicated, and that gets you...
LUSE: Yeah.
LEWIS: ...More points.
(SOUNDBITE OF DAVID MORRIS' WHISTLING OF NIKOLAI RIMSKY-KORSAKOV'S "FLIGHT OF THE BUMBLEBEE")
LEWIS: But that's not necessarily what I want to listen to. But I love going because it's the only time I ever get to meet other whistlers and...
LUSE: Oh.
LEWIS: ...So it's...
LUSE: Oh. Yeah, I didn't really consider that, that you're not consistently probably in a community of other whistlers like yourself.
LEWIS: No, no, I, you know, it's - no. I...
LUSE: Wait, so when you all get together, like, what is it? Is it, like, a meeting of the minds? Like, are you trading tips? Like, what's happening?
LEWIS: Well, what's cool about it is, you know, the one common denominator is whistling. And it's such...
LUSE: Yeah.
LEWIS: ...A diverse group of people. Like, there's people from all over the world of all ages. We definitely talk tips and tricks.
LUSE: Like what?
LEWIS: Well, some whistlers swear by certain chapsticks. There's a mouth spray some whistlers use...
LUSE: Oh.
LEWIS: ...That a trumpeter invented called ChopSaver.
LUSE: Oh. That's a good name (laughter).
LEWIS: There's one whistler who she used to put bacon grease on her lips.
LUSE: Like, to keep the sound smooth?
LEWIS: Just to keep the lips moist and, you know, running well.
LUSE: OK.
LEWIS: And then there's one whistler who - I mean, I love this story. I don't actually know if it's true, but apparently, he didn't kiss his wife for two weeks before a competition just in case it would bruise his lips.
LUSE: Oh. I mean, on one hand, I'm like, that's real dedication. But also, I'm like, I want what they have. Like, kissing that'll bruise the lips? Whoa.
LEWIS: I know. You have to be careful.
LUSE: That's passion.
LEWIS: Exactly.
LUSE: (Laughter). But that's incredible. That must be such a specific feeling to, like, spend your life whistling, as I'm sure many of these other people do, and then to finally be among your people.
LEWIS: Yeah, it's definitely an interesting experience, finally getting to, like, have these conversations...
LUSE: Sure, a specific feeling.
LEWIS: ...That I never get to have with anyone else about this very niche thing that we're all strangely into.
LUSE: (Laughter). Well, you've got this incredible new album called "On The Lips," and you're known for doing, like, whistle kind of lounge music - very atmospheric, moody and slinky in a certain way. And I wonder, what's a word that describes the feeling you want to evoke, making your lounge whistle music?
LEWIS: Gosh, I like people to feel enchanted or moody, something that takes you out of the world and puts you into an atmosphere that brings feelings, longing and mystery and, yeah, something like that.
LUSE: (Laughter). I will say listening to the songs from "On The Lips," especially - what's my jam? - "Silhouette"...
LEWIS: Oh.
LUSE: ...You feel like you're in, like, a jazz bar. Like, it has a very kind of cozy but cosmopolitan feel to it that just really feels like it's coming through very clearly in music.
LEWIS: Oh, well, thank you. My concept for the album was I wanted it to feel like a live show of mine that you walk into, and you sit down, and there's the introduction to the record and kind of an ebb and flow of different feeling songs, but a couple of covers like we do at the live show. But, yeah, we even experimented with adding clapping in between the songs just to make it, like, a fake live experience. I mean, I don't know. We scrapped that. But I'm glad that comes across still anyway.
LUSE: (Laughter) Yes, yes, yes. You know, it's interesting. Like, you have these beautifully composed, fully produced songs of whistling. But that's very different from how many people in the everyday sense experience whistling. Like, many people whistle, including myself, in a way that's similar to, like, fidgeting, like, kind of as a form of, like, self-soothing or, like, something they're just doing absent-mindedly, you know? I wonder, what's it been like to professionalize this craft?
LEWIS: Well, I liken it to humming or - you know, it's something you can walk down the street doing absent-mindedly. I think it's more the explaining I have to do a lot because people do not associate whistling with something refined and professional or seriously musical. So I think that's my crusade, just, like, getting whistling to be known as something beautiful and not just, like, that annoying thing your neighbor's doing too often.
LUSE: One of my first jobs when I was, I don't know, in my early 20s - I was not well adapted yet to working in an office with others. And a habit that I did not realize that I had until it was pointed out to me was that I whistled when I was, like, doing emails or just looking at things all the time. And I had this coworker, a slightly older woman, Evelyn (ph). She was super sweet, but she said a whistling woman and a crowing hen will always come to some bad end.
LEWIS: Oh, my gosh.
LUSE: Have you heard that one?
LEWIS: I have. No one's ever said that to me, thankfully.
LUSE: I don't imagine that they would (laughter).
LEWIS: Yeah, but I've heard that. Yeah, there's some superstitions about whistling. Someone did yell at me on the street once like, whistling attracts ghosts. And I was like, oh. Excuse me?
LUSE: What?
LEWIS: And there's a theater superstition. You're not supposed to whistle in a theater, I think. I used to work at a...
LUSE: I've never heard that one.
LEWIS: Yeah. That's one I heard, although, you know, I definitely have whistled in theaters (laughter).
LUSE: I mean, so far, I think it actually is probably doing you a lot of good.
LEWIS: Yeah, yeah. There have been some whistling superstitions, but, yeah, I definitely don't take too much heed.
LUSE: (Laughter). Nor should you. Nor should you. OK. You said in Rolling Stone, people hear whistling, and they think it's annoying or shrill or twee. It's often done in a very earwormy (ph) kind of way that doesn't necessarily highlight the instrument. It can be really beautiful and soulful. And I have to say - now, this is me talking now - I have to say that I agree with you. I think that's really true. Like, in a lot of pop music, whistling when it's employed can be one of my least favorite parts. It just feels like it's not being used in a way that it could be used, especially when I think about the kind of music that you make. What do you think that kind of employment of whistling in pop music - what do you think people are doing wrong when they do that?
LEWIS: Well, I think it's being used as a catchy little earworm hook. It's always a little bit jingly or cheesy, and then it gets stuck in people's heads 'cause that's what it's meant to do, and then everyone hates that whistle bit. You know, I know why they - people use it in this way. I just - but, yeah, this is what I fight against (laughter) 'cause this is what people think of when they think of whistling in music.
LUSE: (Laughter) I mean, I love whistling, love whistling. I come from a whistling family. I whistle. My dad, cousins, uncle - we all whistle, and we got it from my late grandfather. Whistling was so much a part of who he was that when he passed away, we all whistled at his funeral because it actually would have been weird not to.
LEWIS: Aw.
LUSE: There's something that's, like, deeply human and touching, I think, about whistling. What about it speaks to the soul?
LEWIS: Oh, that's such a beautiful story. I love that. I think it does speak to people, and I do have people tell me that they're quite moved by my music sometimes, and I think whistling - it's a human instrument. It comes from us, and so there's something very familiar and yet otherworldly about the sounds. Like, you can hear it, and you can still recognize, like, this human element. You know, when I think about the history of music, I often think that whistling would have been one of the first instances of humans making music or trying to mimic bird song or - yeah, would have been vocal things, and whistling would've been there.
LUSE: Yeah.
LEWIS: But yeah, it speaks to us as something deep within us.
LUSE: Very elemental. You told my producer that a lot of people have talked to you about their older relatives being whistling enthusiasts. And you have a theory about why it's, like, a talent or pastime that younger generations don't engage in as much. What is that theory?
LEWIS: I've wondered why it was something the older generation was doing more. And I think, you know, these days when we all have our own portable music devices, you don't have to be whistling or humming. Back in the day, if you wanted to carry a tune with you or if you had something stuck in your head, you would be whistling it. So, I mean, that's my theory. I'm not sure, but...
LUSE: No, I mean, that's really compelling.
LEWIS: Yeah.
LUSE: That's really, really, really compelling. Like, if you want to carry a tune, you have something stuck in your head, and you're not otherwise engaged, that's where, like, whistling can flourish.
LEWIS: Yeah, exactly.
LUSE: That is so beautiful. Well, Molly, thank you so much for talking with me today. This has been such a joy.
LEWIS: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
LUSE: OK, so our time with Molly is not done yet because she's got a very special live performance just for us after the break. Stick around.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
LUSE: OK, so after our interview wrapped up, Molly headed into one of our bigger studios at the New York Bureau, where her guitarist, Jackson Clifford FitzGerald, was waiting for her. And from the other side of the glass, the IBAM team, our engineers and I watched this mesmerizing performance.
LEWIS: This is our first song, "On The Lips."
JACKSON CLIFFORD FITZGERALD: (Playing guitar).
LEWIS: Good day, NPR.
FITZGERALD: (Playing guitar).
LEWIS: Thank you for listening.
FITZGERALD: (Playing guitar).
LEWIS: My name is Molly Lewis.
FITZGERALD: (Playing guitar).
LEWIS: And today, today I'll be whistling.
FITZGERALD: (Playing guitar).
LEWIS: (Whistling).
This one's "Oceanic Feeling."
FITZGERALD: (Playing guitar).
LEWIS: (Whistling)
LUSE: That was Molly Lewis and her guitarist, Jackson Clifford Fitzgerald. Her album "On The "Lips" is out now.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Hey, Brittany.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Hey, Brittany.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: Hey, Brittany.
ALEX: Hey, Brittany, this is Alex (ph). And I'm just wondering, have you heard of JoJo Siwa's new song? I heard that she said that she's inventing gay pop or that she has invented gay pop. Have we heard of Kim Petras? Thank you.
LUSE: Oh, my gosh, Alex, thank you so much for calling in with this question. So for those of you who don't know, JoJo Siwa is a singer and dancer. She became known for the dancing first. She was one of the children on the show "Dance Moms," the popular reality TV show. She had this kind of - for those of you who may be old enough to remember - Rainbow Brite aesthetic. She always had this really tight side ponytail, bright blond hair, lots of energy, big, big dance moves. And she was always wearing these outfits that reminded me, like, if Lisa Frank had come to life.
Cut to today. She is 20 years old, and she is, like, in the moment where she's transitioning into, like, whatever the first iteration of her adult celebrity persona is going to be. And boy, oh, boy, has it been interesante. So she's done a few things to mature her image a little bit. She's begun dressing not always in, like, the big rainbow sparkly stuff. She's, like, cut her hair. She came out a few years ago, and she's been more open about her relationships that she's had with other women. And so she's opening more of her true self up to the public. And it's coming out in the music in a really interesting way. I'd never heard a JoJo Siwa song in my life until I heard "Karma."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "KARMA")
JOJO SIWA: (Singing) Karma's a b****. I should've known better.
LUSE: It sounds like a pop song from about 12 years ago, and I think it's about cheating. I haven't been able to really assess the lyrics because I have been so caught up in the way that JoJo Siwa has chosen to perform the choreography with this song. There's a very popular clip that's gone around of JoJo. If somebody's hitting it at a 10, she's going to hit it at 150. So she's doing a little much in the dancing, which has gotten people to kind of, you know, give her some flack on social media. But as for this whole inventing gay pop comment, to clarify, JoJo did say in an interview that she told her team that she wanted to, quote, "start a new genre of music." And when they asked what she meant, that's when she said it's called gay pop.
When she goes on to explain what she meant by gay pop, she cites a bunch of songs from, like, Lady Gaga and Miley Cyrus, which - I get what she's trying to say, I think - like, pop that is popular with gay audiences - but it's not coming together for me, and I think it didn't come together for a lot of people because just that one comment about her saying that she wanted to invent a new genre called gay pop took off online, and the comments followed. There have been queer pop artists who have been making music and been really popular for decades now. And so some of JoJo Siwa's commentary does display a lack of understanding of history. But, I mean, who at 20 is fully aware of everything that came before them? There's another aspect to it as well, which is that I don't think the general public is necessarily buying this version of JoJo as, like, a more mature adult.
And well, I have a couple of thoughts about that. It's pretty common for child stars to want to break the mold of their childhood stardom and move into a more adult kind of look or sound or space. But I kind of think that that could be a good thing. If all of these things still feel transgressive to JoJo Siwa, maybe it's kind of a good thing that at 20, she thinks that, like, cursing publicly is a big deal or that she thinks that, you know, switching up her look from rainbow sparkles and sequins to all black sparkles and sequins is, like, a major shift. It's kind of remarkable after spending basically her entire childhood growing up before all of America. So JoJo Siwa, girl, good luck. Alex, thank you so much for calling in with this question. I don't know if you're going to be bumping "Karma" this week or weekend, but it's clear somebody has been because I'm telling you I cannot escape this song on any type of algorithm that I touch. So, yeah, thank you so much for calling in with this, and have a great weekend.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
LUSE: If you have a thought or question about pop culture, send us a voice memo at [email protected]. That's [email protected]. This episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE was produced by...
COREY ANTONIO ROSE, BYLINE: Corey Antonio Rose.
LUSE: This episode was edited by...
JESSICA PLACZEK, BYLINE: Jessica Placzek.
LUSE: Engineering support came from...
PHIL EDFORS, BYLINE: Phil Edfors.
LUSE: Our executive producer is...
VERALYN WILLIAMS, BYLINE: Veralyn Williams.
LUSE: Our VP of programming is...
YOLANDA SANGWENI, BYLINE: Yolanda Sangweni.
LUSE: All right. That's all for this episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I'm Brittany Luse. Talk soon.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
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