BRITTANY LUSE, HOST:
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luse, and you're listening to It's BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
LUSE: June is Black Music Month. And that doesn't just mean hip-hop, R&B and gospel. We are everywhere. But today, I want to explore one genre where the contributions of Black artists have gone unsung - classical music.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
LUSE: Even though the genre hasn't always been hospitable to us, there are a lot of Black folks who love classical music and more than a few Black musicians who've made classical music their own.
MYLES BLAKEMORE: When I heard it, I just knew it spoke to something in me. And from there, I think I was off to the races.
LUSE: That's Myles Blakemore, trombonist, composer, Howard University professor and great appreciator of classical music.
BLAKEMORE: It's a great way for me to express myself without having to be able to use things like my voice. You know, I'm not a great singer, so it's something that I can do through the instrument, which is just wonderful.
LUSE: In his music, Myles has been adapting the classics, turning up the tempo and putting the trombone center stage. You can hear it in his recent album "Bach-ish," which is what I like to call a Johann Sebastian Bach tribute album. And today, Myles is going to help us learn to hear the finer points in classical music. This critically acclaimed international trombonist and esteemed professor at my alma mater is going to give us a crash course in music appreciation and share how one classical music giant influenced some of your favorite artists.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
LUSE: Myles, welcome to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE.
BLAKEMORE: Thanks for having me, Brittany. Excited to be here.
LUSE: Oh, I love that energy - excited to be here. OK, so you love Johann Sebastian Bach, and a lot of people do. So to get a deeper understanding of why, I want to start with one of his songs that you played on your album and really made it your own. Some listeners might recognize it. It's "Orchestral Suite No. 3" in D.
(SOUNDBITE OF MYLES BLAKEMORE'S PERFORMANCE OF BACH'S "ORCHESTRAL SUITE NO. 3")
LUSE: And just for comparison's sake, here's Yo-Yo Ma's version on cello.
(SOUNDBITE OF YO-YO MA'S PERFORMANCE OF BACH'S "ORCHESTRAL SUITE NO. 3")
BLAKEMORE: So beautiful.
LUSE: Yeah. Tell me, tell me. You say it's so beautiful. What do you hear in that?
BLAKEMORE: I hear so many things going on. There's the main melody, of course. He's doing the solo line that's on top. But if you listen closely, he's using not just one voice, but multiple voices on the strings, and that's called counterpoint. And Bach was a master at that.
LUSE: Yes, you've even said that Bach was one of the masters of counterpoint. But how did you find Bach? Like, where did your love of Bach come from?
BLAKEMORE: It really wasn't until I fell in love with Nina Simone's music and learned more about her story that I was able to figure out that, oh, Bach is somebody that inspired her and somebody that she listens to, so maybe I should listen to this guy as well. So that just sent me down that deep well of Bach's music.
LUSE: Say more about that.
BLAKEMORE: Yeah, I think to learn and understand Nina's love of Bach, you really have to go back to the beginning for her. Before she was a jazz musician, before she was an icon, Nina wanted to be a Black classical piano superstar in America. Her town that she grew up in raised funds for her to attend Juilliard. And unfortunately, that money ran out, so she needed more tuition money. And so her plan was going to be to transfer to the Curtis Institute of Music, which is a free music school. So if you get in, it's all paid for. However, they did not want to let her in, as talented as she was.
So that really broke her heart. And to make money, she had to play in nightclubs, and the nightclubs that she played in wanted her to sing, and they wanted her to play jazz. And so doing that, she was discovered and was never able to really go back to classical music. And I think because of that, it kind of left this deep imprint on her. I think she never forgave the classical music world because of it. But she considered jazz Black classical music.
LUSE: Let's listen to a little bit of "Little Girl Blue" from Nina Simone's debut album.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "LITTLE GIRL BLUE")
NINA SIMONE: (Singing) Sit there...
BLAKEMORE: So good (laughter), first of all. When you listen to that opening entrance of the piano, it's one line, right? And this goes back to counterpoint, like we were talking about with Bach. It's one line, one melody, and then a second melody comes in and then a third and then a fourth. And it just crescendos and gets louder and louder until you've got her voice coming in on top of it. And then it turns from this Bach counterpoint into a jazz ballad. And I think that's something that's very unique to Nina and something that just goes back to, again, this beginning of wanting to be a classical pianist and then inevitably having to become a jazz musician.
LUSE: Yeah, it's so interesting to be able to hear through so many different examples exactly that same musical principle of counterpoint, instruments playing independent melodies that still have, you know, some kind of related rhythm or harmony. That shows up not just across genres but across time. It kind of shows how - I mean, look, I'm going to be real. Like, I never really was super into Bach when I was younger. I was, for some reason, as a child really obsessed with Mozart.
BLAKEMORE: OK.
LUSE: (Laughter) Like, I used to know so many things about him. If I had a school project where we had to pick somebody to be and, like, dress up as, that was my pick. That was my guy. I don't know what I was thinking about as a child. I really have no clue what all that was about. So I never really got into Bach like that. I see why you're so Bach-pilled.
BLAKEMORE: Yeah (laughter).
LUSE: And counterpoint - now that I know about it, I can think of it everywhere. I can hear it in, like, Phil Spector layering and creating that wall of sound.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH")
TINA TURNER: (Singing) If I lost you, would I cry? Oh, how I love you, baby, baby, baby, baby.
LUSE: It's something that you can hear I feel like in a lot of Beyonce and Brandy albums. When I'm thinking about stacking to create certain chords almost vocally, there will actually be multiple different melodies running at the exact same time stacked on top of each other.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HAVE YOU EVER")
BRANDY: (Singing) Have you ever loved somebody so much it makes you cry? Have you ever...
BLAKEMORE: Absolutely. Yeah, it's a technique that has really stood the test of time. I know you said that you grew up as a fan of Mozart. There is a connection between Bach and Mozart.
LUSE: Yeah.
BLAKEMORE: And it's not just that they were both in the Germanic world. But Bach's son was actually one of Mozart's teachers.
LUSE: Whoa.
BLAKEMORE: So there's some connection there.
LUSE: I didn't know that. Wow. Wow. That is deep.
(LAUGHTER)
LUSE: I feel like I'm seeing everything now in zeros and ones (laughter).
BLAKEMORE: Yes. Right. Yeah (laughter).
LUSE: We just heard this beautiful passage from Nina Simone's first album. And I can see how that very directly calls back to a lot of Bach's influence, especially as you've described it. Nina was a musician who didn't call herself a jazz artist or a classical artist. You know, you mentioned that she referred to jazz as Black classical music. We hear a lot about the utility of genre today. Beyonce just released a whole country album (laughter) that explored that very topic. So this is something that people are still talking about and unpacking when it comes to Black music to this very day. But Nina Simone was talking about this decades ago. I wonder, as a Black classical musician, how do you feel about Nina Simone describing jazz like that?
BLAKEMORE: I think it's spot on when you think of what classical music is. In the days that it was being performed in Europe, that was, like, the pop music of the day in the same way that jazz music when it was developed in the 1920s in America was, like, pop music of the time. It only became classical years later. So when you think of where jazz came from, it came from the streets of St. Louis, from New Orleans, and it was Black musicians who developed this music on the streets. But where the instruments come from, it came from the military bands that were so prevalent in those days. So when you think of the instrumentation that's in a lot of jazz - right? - it's things like the saxophone, the trumpet...
LUSE: Right.
BLAKEMORE: ...The drums. And these were all, again, classical instruments that were being used in military bands in this country at that time. So they were readily available. They were cheap. You know, you could go to a pawn shop, pick up a horn and then meet your buddies on the street. And we used those instruments and the classical training to develop our own kind of music. It really kind of reminds me of the birth of hip-hop on the streets of Harlem, you know, like, just people using what they had, the resources that were available to them to play the music that they wanted to play.
LUSE: That's so cool. I mean, I went to New Orleans. We went to the Jazz Museum down there, and that was the first time that I had heard how those military band instruments ended up, you know, being picked up by people on street corners and then turned into jazz. And it was just such a surprising connection to me.
BLAKEMORE: Yeah. You know, what's surprising to me, too, about those instruments is, you know, if you go to the African American History Museum that's in Washington, D.C., here, a lot of those instruments are on display. In fact, I got to see Charlie Parker's saxophone.
LUSE: Wow.
BLAKEMORE: And it's a beginner's saxophone. And just thinking, like, all the beautiful music at the highest level possible that he was performing on what today would be in the hands of a fifth grader who's learning to play saxophone for the first time.
LUSE: It's, like, you know, using whatever is available...
BLAKEMORE: Yes.
LUSE: ...To you to create something completely new. You don't have to have the shiniest, newest, most right-sized saxophone in order to create something brilliant, in the same way that you don't even need to have instruments to be able to create hip-hop music.
BLAKEMORE: Exactly.
LUSE: You can find ways to work with, you know, what's old and create something, you know, altogether completely different.
So we're here to talk about music appreciation. And since you're a musician and a professor of music at that, I want to know how did you become the classically trained trombonist and composer you are today. Where did all this start?
BLAKEMORE: Yeah. You know, it was when I was in fourth grade. My high school marching band, the high school of that town, came and played for our elementary school. And, you know, it was very much sort of like an HBCU - think of Howard, think of Grambling style - high-knees-style marching band. You know? And so they played Ginuwine's "In Those Jeans." And I loved it. I lost my - you know, lost everything. I was like, oh, my God, what is this, you know?
LUSE: Yes, I remember that song. I mean, we're talking about marching band.
BLAKEMORE: Right.
LUSE: But for those who don't understand, in that HBC marching band tradition, how those bands like the Howard University Showtime Marching Band - they take, you know, contemporary songs, and they adapt them...
BLAKEMORE: Yes.
LUSE: ...To that style. And I think about "In Those Jeans," the original song by Ginuwine. It's very slow grind, prime 2000s R&B.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "IN THOSE JEANS")
GINUWINE: (Singing) Is there room, any more room for me in those jeans? (Any more) Really thick, like I like it.
BLAKEMORE: Absolutely. Yeah, there's some funk on it, for sure. And, you know, when you think of one of those marching bands, you know, they add the flare to it. They're dancing. They're getting everybody to their feet.
(SOUNDBITE OF GINUWINE SONG, "IN THOSE JEANS")
BLAKEMORE: It hooked me so much that the very next day, I went to the band director, and I said, hey, I'm joining the band next year. What do I got to do? And he said, hey, you've got long arms. You should play the trombone.
LUSE: (Laughter) And not too far down the road, you found Bach. I guess Bach appreciation can start anywhere. I have one last question for you. You're a professor at my alma mater, Howard University. You probably have a lot of students who come to Howard who are looking to deepen their understanding of traditionally Black musical genres and to one day, hopefully, play those genres professionally or teach those genres professionally. They may be into a completely different type of music than you altogether.
BLAKEMORE: Right.
LUSE: So I wonder, how do you go about getting them interested in classical music.
BLAKEMORE: I think it all comes down to listening to live music. So that's something I push on everybody that I can. Luckily, Howard is located in Washington, D.C., where there is live music happening everywhere. It's all over, so I think there's no shortage of opportunities. So classical music is really the building blocks of music in general, or it can be. And I think if you develop, again, those classical music skills and fundamentals, you can then take that to jazz. It's going to help you in the long run, so do it all.
LUSE: Well, Myles, it has been such a pleasure to talk with you today. You have grown my ear. That's what I would say. You have grown my ear today. Thank you so much.
BLAKEMORE: Thanks for having me, Brittany. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
LUSE: That was trombonist Myles Blakemore. His album, "Bach-ish, " is out now.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Hey, Brittany.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Hey, Brittany.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: Hey, Brittany.
COREY ANTONIO ROSE, BYLINE: Hey, Brittany. It's your producer, Corey Antonio. Last week, we asked what songs you think should be in the history books, and I have a submission from Carlos (ph). He says, my choice for the best song is "The Impossible Dream" from the Broadway show, the "Man Of La Mancha." I cry every time I listen to it.
LUSE: Carlos, thank you so much for writing in with this submission. Oh, my gosh. "Man Of La Mancha" - what a musical. But also to dream "The Impossible Dream."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM")
LUTHER VANDROSS: (Singing) To dream the impossible dream.
LUSE: This musical is about the character Don Quixote, from the classic novel of the same name by Miguel Cervantes. And I appreciate you saying that this one should be in the history books because I do remember it being one of the more beautiful stories that I learned in my Spanish class in high school. I don't think I was at Cervantes' level of Spanish at age 16. But the story is famous. Don Quixote is an idealist on an absurd and epic quest to defend the helpless and bring back the ways of the knights.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM")
VANDROSS: (Singing) The unreachable, the unreachable star.
LUSE: So I'm going to give you points for that answer. Bravo to you, Carlos. Thank you so much for writing in with this response. Now, my answer is a little bit different than yours (laughter). I actually think that a song that should be taught in history books is Justin Bieber's "One Time"...
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ONE TIME")
JUSTIN BIEBER: (Singing) Always making time for you. I'ma tell you one time. (Girl, I love, girl, I love you.) I'ma tell you one time. (Girl, I love, girl, I love you.)
LUSE: ...Not because the song itself has any type of musical significance. I could see this song being in history books one day because of how much it changed the music industry, but even more so, how it changed how we think about fame. So before Justin Bieber, most of the time, the way that music popularity and fandom was built was through music industry A&R representatives and execs and street teams and marketing plans.
And don't get it twisted. I would argue most artists who record music and tour at a high level are still using all of these things. But there is one crucial apparatus that Justin Bieber had access to that we really hadn't seen before used at that level until he became famous in 2009. And that is the internet. Justin Bieber didn't just have a Myspace music page or something like that. He was absolutely massive on YouTube. He would record cover songs from artists like Ne-Yo and Usher - like, really cute R&B covers.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "U GOT IT BAD")
BIEBER: (Singing) I'll tell her, I'm your man. You're my girl. I'm going to tell it to the whole wide world. See, I've been there, done it, on the ground (ph).
LUSE: And he had grown popular through, you know, the young audience of his peers, mostly young girls in Canada and the United States, who would see his videos and thought he was so cute and loved his little chirpy voice. Now, of course, the music industry took notice of this and decided to invest in Justin Bieber, which resulted in "One Time" being his, like, first official single that was, like, all professionally recorded and had a video and everything like that with it. But still, before Justin Bieber, it was not the norm for people to be discovered on YouTube and then go on to have a massive career.
Now, in his wake, oh, my gosh. How many artists have come from YouTube? Charlie Puth, The Weeknd, Chloe x Halle. And now the music industry will troll TikTok and troll YouTube actually looking for talent with built-in fan bases that they can monetize. And speaking on Justin Bieber's popularity and its impact on how we think about fame, also, in past ages, celebrities were determined by, you know, whether or not they were starring in a movie or they were the quarterback of a football team or they had a huge album out right now.
Now you can become famous in almost no time for literally any reason whatsoever, all because of the power of these big social media platforms. So I would also argue that Justin Bieber's fame wasn't just the hallmark of, like, a changing music industry, but also a really big shift in who we consider a celebrity and how those people get to those posts. So there it is. That is my submission for a song that I think should probably be in the history books.
And if you want to be heard on next week's Hey, Brittany, oh, my gosh, do we have a question for you. So, we have a wonderful conversation next week with poet and cookbook author Crystal Wilkinson. We're going to be talking about how we pass our family lineage down through beloved and cherished recipes. And so I'm asking all of you to tell me what is a dish that you know your family member makes it better than anybody else in the world. Tell me what is the dish, what does it taste like and why do you love it so much? Send us a voice memo at [email protected]. That's [email protected].
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
LUSE: This episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE was produced by...
ROSE: Corey Antonio Rose.
LUSE: This episode was edited by...
JESSICA PLACZEK, BYLINE: Jessica Placzek.
SARA SARASOHN, BYLINE: Sara Sarasohn.
LUSE: Engineering support came from...
PATRICK MURRAY, BYLINE: Patrick Murray.
LUSE: We have fact-checking help from...
AYDA POURASAD, BYLINE: Ayda Pourasad.
LUSE: Our executive producer is...
VERALYN WILLIAMS, BYLINE: Veralyn Williams.
LUSE: Our VP of programming is...
YOLANDA SANGWENI, BYLINE: Yolanda Sangweni.
LUSE: All right, that's all for this episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I'm Brittany Luse. Talk soon.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
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