Ahead of Thursday's presidential debate in Georgia, voters head to the pools.
JULIE: Mabuhay. This is Julie (ph) coming to you from Pampanga State Agricultural University in the Philippines, where I've been working for the last 10 months as an agritourism specialist with the Peace Corps Response program. This pod was recorded at...
ASHLEY LOPEZ, HOST:
11:17 a.m. Eastern time on Wednesday, June 26, 2024.
JULIE: I'm currently waiting for a jeepney to pass - the promised mode of transportation here since the 1950s - to whisk me off to a meeting with my local students. Hope you enjoy the show.
(SOUNDBITE OF THE BIGTOP ORCHESTRA'S "TEETER BOARD: FOLIES BERGERE (MARCH AND TWO-STEP)")
ASMA KHALID, BYLINE: That sounds so cool. I love how global this pod has become.
LOPEZ: Yeah, it's so cool. Hey there. It's the NPR POLITICS PODCAST. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover voting.
KHALID: And I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.
LOPEZ: And Atlanta member station WABE reporter Sam Gringlas is here as well. Hello again, Sam.
SAM GRINGLAS, BYLINE: Hey, there.
LOPEZ: Tomorrow's CNN presidential debate will broadcast from Atlanta, Ga., and we'll be out with a late reaction podcast after it wraps. So don't worry if we're not in your feeds at the regular time. You can stream the debate on our site or via the NPR app, and, of course, you can listen to it on the radio.
Asma, let's start with you. This is a big moment in this campaign, obviously. What do you see as the stakes here for each of the candidates moving into tomorrow?
KHALID: You know, Ashley, as you mentioned, it is a really big moment, and I would say for both Trump and Biden, because this is a repeat of the 2020...
LOPEZ: Yeah.
KHALID: ...Election. And what I hear from the Biden campaign is that reality hasn't begun to sunk in for many...
LOPEZ: Right.
KHALID: ...Voters - that this will be a binary choice and that their choices will be the same choices they faced during the 2020 cycle. You know, if you look at the first debate during the 2020 campaign, Nielsen ratings found that over 70 million people tuned in to watch that.
The Biden campaign seems to think that, you know, if they can similarly get a big audience of people to tune in, maybe people will begin to sort of realize that, yes, this is going to be a Trump-Biden rematch, and whether or not they like it, they have to choose one of the two candidates.
LOPEZ: Yeah, and, of course, you know, Georgia itself is pretty important. Sam, it was one of the closest races in the country in 2020. It landed in Biden's column, but it almost went totally to Republicans in the 2022 midterm, save one Senate seat.
I mean, you've talked to voters. I heard you spent a day at a pool recently. What are you hearing from voters? Are they as, like, jazzed to be in probably one of the hottest swing states ahead of this election, or did you kind of get, like, some different feedback?
GRINGLAS: OK, so, Ashley, Asma, it's been really hot in Georgia. So like you said...
LOPEZ: Yeah.
GRINGLAS: ...I figured the best place to talk to voters would be, of course, the swimming pool. So I put on my swim trunks. And I picked a pool in a community that I've visited a lot over the last couple of years - Alpharetta. It's this metro Atlanta suburb that was once pretty Republican but has been turning more purple in the Trump era, which is kind of a microcosm of Georgia as a whole.
LOPEZ: Yeah.
GRINGLAS: This is a community where, in 2022, I met lots of voters who were splitting their tickets between the Republican candidate for governor and the Democratic candidate for Senate. And this trip - a couple of buckets of people I met - one, folks who are unhappy, Asma, as you mentioned, with their choices for President and are feeling kind of indifferent or, at the very least, tuned out from politics right now. There have been so many tight elections in Georgia over the last couple of years, and I think people are feeling kind of done. And then there's also a bucket of people who are feeling really nervous, both about this debate, but also just about this election cycle. I chatted with Madalyn Ford, who's voted for Republicans and Democrats, but never Trump.
MADALYN FORD: This is really important for Biden. He better get a good night's rest. I don't think he's got dementia. But he's old, and this is super important.
LOPEZ: Yeah, so, I mean, this is one person who seems to be, like, tuned into what's going on. But did you find that with most voters? Is everyone, like, looking forward to the debate, ready to get into this election, or do you think the debate could be an on-ramp for some folks who probably haven't been paying attention until now?
GRINGLAS: Well, let me introduce you to a couple more pool folks. Prasad and Mansi Vichare were watching their kids splash around in the pool. And they both told me that the debates seemed kind of pointless. And they're also independent voters. So ostensibly, these are people that both Biden and Trump would like to be tuning in to watch this debate.
PRASAD VICHARE: I think, to be honest, they're a waste. But that's just my opinion.
MANSI VICHARE: I'm indifferent. I'm indifferent. They're going to have to say what people would like, not say what people would not like. So I feel like that's somewhat fake sometimes. And so I don't know if it's really that helpful.
GRINGLAS: Another woman I talked to - her name is Kerry Webster. She was reading a book while lounging on a pool chair in the sun. And she told me she's actually still undecided at this point in the race but has really questioned whether her vote even matters.
She is not happy with either choice for President. And, you know, even though she voted for Trump in the last cycle, now he's been convicted of felonies, and that's really leaving her not sure what to do this November.
KERRY WEBSTER: And he's a conniver. He's just not a good person, you know? He's really not. But the economy was better, you know? And Biden, I feel like - I don't know that he does a whole lot, you know, for us - hate to say, you know?
GRINGLAS: But, you know, Kerry Webster told me she's not planning to watch the debate. She told me "Dateline" is more her speed than news programming.
LOPEZ: Interesting.
GRINGLAS: And so, you know, whether this debate will help swing her is up in the air, and she is exactly the kind of voter that these campaigns need to reach in a really important state and a really important community. This state was decided by just under 12,000 votes, so voters like Kerry Webster really do matter.
KHALID: Sam, it's really interesting to hear you describe what you heard from Kerry because one question I've had is - how many people are actually going to tune in to watch this debate? It is earlier than debates are traditionally held. It's, in fact, even before either party holds its nominating convention. And so the thinking that you hear from the campaigns is maybe, by holding it this early, the choices will become crystal clear in voters' minds. But, you know, it's the week before the Fourth of July. A lot of folks are tuning out, going on vacation.
LOPEZ: Yeah. All right, let's take a quick break, and we'll talk more in a second.
And we're back. Asma, what do you think are going to be the most important issues that the campaigns are going to tackle in the debate tomorrow?
KHALID: You know, I think, both for Biden and Trump, this debate is an opportunity to present contrasting visions.
LOPEZ: Yeah.
KHALID: And I think this really comes down to just about everything 'cause I would say that these two men have rather different worldviews on a whole range of issues - maybe with the exception of, say, like, industrial policy. On that realm...
LOPEZ: Right.
KHALID: ...Of the economy, they tend to align. I think where you can anticipate hearing Trump try to hammer Biden is on inflation and immigration. These are both seen as vulnerabilities for the president. And then when you talk about Biden, I think where we can really anticipate him try to go on the offensive is on both democracy - threats to democracy. This, of course, comes at one of the few opportunities where these two men are going to be on stage after the January 6 attack of the - on the Capitol. And then also on reproductive rights and abortion - this week is the two-year anniversary of when Roe v. Wade...
LOPEZ: Yeah.
KHALID: ...Was overturned. You've heard a lot of Democrats out on the campaign trail talking about that issue. It's certainly seen to be a strength for Democrats.
LOPEZ: Sam, I wonder, with the voters you've talked to, how distinct those choices feel to them.
GRINGLAS: So I met a voter at the pool, Deanna McKay. She's a millennial, and she has voted for both Biden and Trump over the last two cycles and is still actively weighing her vote. And the two issues that she told me are most important to her are economic issues, including housing affordability, and also reproductive rights. And that's kind of left her in a really difficult choice when it comes to picking between Biden and Trump. Here's how she described it.
DEANNA MCKAY: Socially Biden, but, like, financially Trump - and that's kind of a tough place to be because these aren't the two candidates that I would choose.
GRINGLAS: And do you know something really interesting? McKay told me that she doesn't necessarily fault Trump for the fall of Roe v. Wade despite those three Supreme Court appointments that really cemented a conservative majority on the court. So this may be one opportunity for the Biden campaign to really draw that through line between reproductive rights and the consequences of another term of Trump in office. And I think at this point in the cycle, you know, it's still June...
LOPEZ: Yeah.
GRINGLAS: ...People have been tuned out. Maybe they haven't been following the news like we have. Some of those connections just aren't as clarified in voters' mind. And one other thing I'll say is that, in the lead-up to the debate, both campaigns have been in Atlanta trying to energize voters around some...
LOPEZ: Yeah.
GRINGLAS: ... Of these issues. Democrats held an event on Monday focused on IVF and reproductive rights. And the Trump campaign has been holding events especially targeting Black voters in metro Atlanta - so seeing this debate as an opportunity not just to reach viewers on TV screens but also to be organizing potential volunteers and voters in swing communities.
LOPEZ: Well, and there's also a big difference between the last time these two men met for a debate. Biden is now the incumbent. Now that he has a record to defend, Asma, I'm thinking, how is the campaign thinking about, you know, the new position that Biden finds himself in?
KHALID: I think it's really key to how the president and his aides are thinking about approaching this debate. And the reason I say that is that, historically if you look at previous debates, incumbent presidents often have a rocky first debate. I mean...
LOPEZ: Yeah.
KHALID: ...If you look even at just the 2020 election cycle, that first debate between Trump and Biden - there was a lot of crosstalk. It wasn't seemed to be particularly successful for Donald Trump. He came back, and the second debate was more, I think, restrained.
LOPEZ: Yeah.
KHALID: And I would say that one of the challenges I've heard from people is that incumbent presidents tend to be on the defensive, where they are often defending their record - right? - whether it's, for Biden, let's say, inflation, immigration. And so I think the challenge is they both need to defend their record but also present a vision for the future. And the incumbent's record is just much more top of mind, front and center because...
LOPEZ: Yeah.
KHALID: ...It is Biden now who's in the Oval Office. Biden wasn't in the Oval Office four years ago. It was Trump. But I do think that the other difference in this cycle is that incumbent presidents tend to not be as battle-tested as their opponents, right? Their opponents tend to go through primary debates and have practice with this format. That's not true this election cycle because, as y'all know, Donald Trump refused to participate in any of the Republican primary debates.
LOPEZ: Well, Sam, I know we'll all be keeping tabs on how voters are feeling after the debate, and I know you'll be part of that.
GRINGLAS: Can't promise a swimming pool next time, but I promise that we will be keeping tabs on Georgia voters wherever they are.
LOPEZ: Sounds great. That's Sam Gringlas of member station WABE. Thanks for joining us, Sam.
GRINGLAS: Thanks, Ashley. Thanks, Asma.
LOPEZ: All right, let's leave it there for today. A reminder - we're going to be late in your feeds tomorrow after the debate. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover voting.
KHALID: And I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.
LOPEZ: And thank you, as always, for listening to the NPR POLITICS PODCAST.
(SOUNDBITE OF THE BIGTOP ORCHESTRA'S "TEETER BOARD: FOLIES BERGERE (MARCH AND TWO-STEP)")
Copyright © 2024 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.