< 'Back to Black' misses Amy Winehouse's point of view

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

STEPHEN THOMPSON, HOST:

The new music biopic "Back To Black" chronicles the life of singer-songwriter Amy Winehouse as she records her breakthrough album, gets married and struggles with addiction. But does the film do justice to the singer and her music? I'm Stephen Thompson. Today, we are talking about "Back To Black" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. Joining me is my POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR co-host Aisha Harris. Hey, Aisha.

AISHA HARRIS, HOST:

Hello, Stephen.

THOMPSON: Also with us is Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. She is a producer on NPR's Culture Desk and the Book of the Day podcast. Welcome back, Isabella.

ISABELLA GOMEZ SARMIENTO, BYLINE: Howdy. Thanks for having me.

THOMPSON: Thanks for being here. So Amy Winehouse's life story is pretty well-known by now. It even spawned an Oscar-winning documentary called "Amy." But "Back To Black" turns that story into a biopic starring Marisa Abela as the singer who died of alcohol poisoning at 27. The film begins when Winehouse is a scrappy teenager who gets in trouble with her friends, sings with her family and writes songs heavily influenced by the giants of jazz.

Soon, Winehouse signs a record label deal, releases her first album and meets her future husband, Blake, played by Jack O'Connell. The volatile and sometimes violent relationship between Amy and Blake provided a lot of fodder for tabloids, and it's the source of much of the conflict in "Back To Black." But the film also explores her relationships with her family, particularly her father, Mitch, played by Eddie Marsan, as well as her substance abuse. "Back To Black" was directed by Sam Taylor-Johnson and is in theaters now. Isabella, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of "Back To Black"?

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: So to give a little bit of background to answer that question, I don't know that much about Amy Winehouse's life. Obviously, I know who she is. I've listened to her music. She's, you know, a legendary singer. But I purposely stayed away from really, like, reading in before watching this, so I could sort of approach it from, you know, fresh eyes, fresh ears. It wasn't my favorite biopic. I think there were a lot of cringy moments for me watching it, but I did learn a lot about her life. And especially the early scenes with her family I thought were really touching, and it was a side of Amy that I wasn't familiar with at all. So that was something that I really enjoyed. But I cannot say it got a lot better from there for me.

THOMPSON: Well, speak to that for a sec. Like, where did it fall down for you?

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: I think it felt like as soon as her career starts really taking off, I feel like I kind of lost a sense of, like, character development, and it's like we just really quickly see her deteriorating in the public eye, which, again, honestly, my only familiarity with Amy's public life was, like, being little at the grocery store checkout and seeing all these horrible images of her that, like, paparazzi chasing her and her in this very, you know, turbulent state with her husband. And I think the movie went from, like, zero to a hundred really quick on that, and I don't really think we understood what she was going through mentally and emotionally to reach that state.

It was just, like, she's trying to make it. She's against drugs. All of a sudden, she's made it. And I didn't really like how the film handled her addiction. I didn't - I felt like the whole purpose of this movie going in was that, like, we were going to sort of reclaim the way that the media and the public exploited her addiction. But I didn't really feel like the movie gave us that. It felt like it was kind of doing the same thing. It was just, like, look how crazy this is. Look how horrible addiction is. But not in a very sensitive way, in my opinion.

HARRIS: Yeah, I think that's a really great point. And I made the mistake, perhaps, of rewatching "Amy" the...

THOMPSON: Oh, boy.

HARRIS: ...Day before (laughter) I saw this. It's one of the few documentaries, actually, that I've watched multiple times, in part, because I was a huge Amy Winehouse fan. I remember when "Back To Black" came to the U.S. I was in college, and then I went back, and I learned about "Frank," her first album, and just became such a huge fan. And it was really sad to watch her sort of deteriorate in real-time. And I remember where I was when I learned that she passed and being both, like, not shocked at all but just, like, really, really sad.

And so I'm coming at this from, like, a fan's perspective. And I think what my issue - my biggest issue with this film, and I think what a lot of fans who have sort of followed this closely might feel about this film, is that it really, really kind of distorts the image that a lot of us have of Mitch, her father. If you've watched the documentary, he comes off in many ways as, like, an opportunist.

THOMPSON: Well, and, like, the ultimate enabler.

HARRIS: The ultimate enabler. And, I mean, that's in the lyric of the song. He tried to make me go to rehab.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "REHAB")

AMY WINEHOUSE: (Singing) I ain't got the time. And if my daddy thinks I'm fine. He's tried to make me go to rehab. I won't go, go, go.

HARRIS: And the way that this film portrays it is that he's still an enabler. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, in the film, there's a whole scene where Nick Shymansky, her one-time manager, is trying to convince her, like, you need to go to rehab, and her dad literally says no. But in the film, they portray it like he's just doing what she wants him to say. She's like, I'm fine, Dad, right? And he's like, sure, baby girl. It gives us, like, benevolently negligent, like, I'm a pushover vibe, whereas, what's - the documentary at least. And again, there's probably some truth between both of these stories...

THOMPSON: Right.

HARRIS: ...That, like, we are not aware of, but I think the documentary makes it feel a little bit more sinister. And, you know, the Winehouse estate approved of this film, which is why we get all this music. So I can understand why the father, especially, seems so nice in this film or at least, like, so just like a caring father. That really bugged me. And the documentary, at least for me, does way more to, like, focus on her music and how her life connected to her music, whereas you get a little bit of that here, but then we get just, like, lots of time where we're just with her and Blake. And that's not - I mean, I guess it's kind of like "Priscilla" in a way, where it's like, we're just going to see (laughter) this very insular relationship...

THOMPSON: Oh, boy.

HARRIS: ...And not see the outside. But, yeah, I'm curious, Stephen, where you're coming at this from.

THOMPSON: Well, you mentioned "Priscilla." One of the big differences between this film and "Priscilla" is that "Priscilla" has a point of view.

HARRIS: This is true (laughter).

THOMPSON: So, Aisha, you and I are both on the record as not being super pro-biopic...

HARRIS: Nopety (ph) nope.

THOMPSON: ...As a filmmaking format.

HARRIS: Yes.

THOMPSON: We have seen a lot of historical dramas and biopics. And I have to say, to this film's credit, it avoids some of the biopic pitfalls that I hate the most. It doesn't take a real-life person and turn them into more of a villain than they were. It doesn't rewrite history to suit a filmmaker's agenda. It doesn't recite a Wikipedia entry from cradle to grave like so many, like, too many to name.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: I agree with you that it does have a little bit of that gloss of, like, it is approved by the estate.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: And so any villain-making or point of view it might have feels sanded down.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: So I have just listed a bunch of the things that "Back To Black" doesn't do. Isabella, Aisha, I ask of you, what does this film do?

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Oh, my gosh.

THOMPSON: This film doesn't do anything. It doesn't have a point of view. It doesn't have anything to say about its subject.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Yeah.

THOMPSON: It does absolutely nothing to justify its existence in any way, shape or form other than to retell what we already know, which is Amy Winehouse was super talented. She made great music. She was brought low by alcohol and drugs and a toxic relationship. We already know this.

HARRIS: Well, Stephen, didn't you know that she really wanted to be a mother? Because...

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Oh, my God.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Because that comes up multiple times in this film, in a way that, oh, my God, it felt like the oldest trope in the book of, like, this sad, poor genius woman who, you know, was beloved, but, like, because she didn't become a mother or get to understand what it means to bear a child, it was ultimately her downfall. Now, granted, like, I'm overstating things. Like, they still make it very clear, like, the drugs and alcohol were the issue, and the fame, to some extent. But, like, they really hammer home, like, two scenes where she interacts or sees a child with their parents, and is like, oh, I really want to mother. Oh, I need to go to rehab. Like, that - and it's, like, what? (Laughter) I hated that. I hated that.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: It also just felt very infantilizing. Like, I feel like the way that Amy came across is not how I've interpreted her or connected with her in the interviews that I've seen. It just felt a little bit like a caricature. And to your point, Stephen, like, I think - I read that the whole point of this film, as opposed to the documentaries, we're supposed to step into her shoes. But I don't feel like I understand anything about her. And I - it felt like a very surface-level understanding of Amy Winehouse. It didn't feel like - I don't know, it didn't feel like a real person. It kind of felt like someone doing an impression of Amy Winehouse to me.

THOMPSON: You're hitting on my next question, among other things, which is this central performance by Marisa Abela as Amy. She sings. They did not dub in Amy Winehouse's vocals or another impersonator's vocals. They had Marisa Abela sing as Amy Winehouse. And I wanted to talk to you both about what you thought of this performance because I basically liked this central performance. My main note was I thought she looked like Britney Spears.

HARRIS: I said the same thing. I was like, she should totally play Britney Spears.

THOMPSON: Let the record show, by the way, that Isabella is, like, mouth open, like, oh.

HARRIS: No. I had the same exact thought. I can't remember. It might have even been towards the end when she performs "Rehab" on the night that she wins a bunch of Grammys. There was just, like, a moment where I was like, holy, like, that - she should have played Britney Spears. Like, this - 'cause she looks nothing like - except for the rare occasion where, like, you get a side profile of her face, and I'm like, oh, I guess that could be Amy Winehouse, sort of. But, like, she has way more of a Britney vibe. I mean, I think to the performance aspect, she is the one bright spot, and she does a decent job of sounding like Amy Winehouse. Like...

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Yes.

HARRIS: ...She enunciates too well 'cause, like, look - I love Amy, but, like, part of her, at least, appeal to me is that half the time you don't understand what she's saying, partially because her accent is so just, like, unsanded down. And she just - she drawls. Like, that is her - that is the way she - so sometimes she sounded a little too clear. But I think she got a lot of her sort of mannerisms and her sort of body language and the way her face would move when she performed. Like, I really got that vibe.

I also think the film, you know, as much as we don't get much of a point of view, I do think Amy Winehouse's, like, spunk and sort of, like, flippant nature comes out in certain moments in a way that I thought I could see the, like, outlines of a real person here, and they're trying to get there. But I do - I just really want to implore, especially Isabella, if you haven't seen the documentary. You do get so much more of her and also just of her songwriting craft, which this film just doesn't really try to connect those dots.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: So that was a big thing for me where I was, like, she's made all of this amazing music, but we kind of just brush over that. It's like, oh, here she is at this bar singing these hits. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, these songs are incredible. Where is she, like, working through this and writing? And I...

THOMPSON: Yeah.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: In terms of the performance, I felt like there was a little bit too much singing in cursive, if you know what I mean. And I think...

THOMPSON: Ooh. I like that phrase.

HARRIS: Yeah.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: It's weird because I think, like, if you actually listen to the versions for this film and then you listen to Amy's originals, they don't sound that different. Like, she does get very close, and I think her voice is incredible.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "STRONGER THAN ME")

MARISA ABELA: (As Amy Winehouse, singing) I've forgotten all of young love's joy. Feel like a lady, and you my lady boy. You should be stronger than me.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: But I think to your point, Aisha, I don't know if it was, like, trying to land the accent, or just, like, something about the way Amy did it felt so organic. And to me, it felt very forced at a lot of points, both in how she talked and in how she sang. But I...

HARRIS: Yeah.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: ...Will say, like, to that point of the spunk, I really liked the costume choices and how they sort of showed her getting ready and, like, the moment of her grandma doing her hair in the beehive for the first time and, like, singing Lauryn Hill, and she's got her big hoop earrings, like, that visual aspect of it, I really enjoyed. And, like, yeah, I just couldn't - it didn't seem believable to me. It felt very, like, she tried really hard, and I think she almost got there, but it just didn't quite work for me.

THOMPSON: Because the film gave me so little to work with, I found myself overly studying the performance. I found myself overly studying, as you said, Isabella, the costuming, overly studying, like, how the image I'm seeing on the screen compares to images I've seen on TV and in profiles of her. I found myself overly studying her vocals and her accent and her face, and it's why I kept dwelling on the Britney Spears thing...

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Yeah.

THOMPSON: ...Because had the film had more to say, had the script not just been kind of ticking boxes, I could have gotten lost in that performance, which I think is a highly skilled performance.

HARRIS: Yeah. Yeah. It's also weird to me that, like, we don't really get any sort of her creating "Back To Black" the album, which was the big album. It's, like, you mentioned Mark Ronson, but he's not actually a character in this film. Like, what?

THOMPSON: You could have gotten lots of guys who look like Mark...

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Yeah.

THOMPSON: ...Ronson (laughter).

HARRIS: Yeah. It was very, very strange how we just kind of drop out, and nothing is gleaned here. If you don't know anything about her, you're going to come out of it not really knowing much about her that you didn't already know.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: All of the performances - 'cause they are good, like the BBC performance of "Valerie," at the end, like you're saying, when she wins all those Grammys, like, I'm like, so when did she make this music?

HARRIS: Yeah.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: I don't know. That was weird.

THOMPSON: To me, this film, in the way that it skips over the making of the record, it feels like it's not that interested in the music.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: It feels like it's more interested in this toxic relationship between Amy and Blake, which, to me, just isn't as interesting as the brilliance of her music.

HARRIS: I will say on the flip side, I don't know if I've ever seen a good scene in a drama where you're watching someone actually create a song. Like, this happens at the beginning of the film where...

THOMPSON: In the movie "Once," they do it beautifully.

HARRIS: OK.

THOMPSON: And I think in the Lady Gaga "A Star Is Born," they at least capture how a great performance can feel.

HARRIS: That's true.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Yeah.

HARRIS: But I think those are both films about not-real musicians.

THOMPSON: (Laughter) Good point. Good point.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: They're not biopics.

HARRIS: It's a different thing when - they're not biopics, and they're not movies where we already know what the song is, we're familiar with the song, 'cause, like, to me, there's not really a way to do that without, like - because the recognition or, like, recognizing something that's already fully formed and then watching it be created (laughter) in the dramatic sense to me just is always going to come off as cheesy.

It's, like - it's hard to do that in a way that I think doesn't just feel like "Walk Hard" or, you know, it's - and so I don't know what the happy medium would be, but I do think, like you said, Stephen, sort of maybe finding the joy, if not in the creation of it, but in, like, the performance of it or - finding, like, the meat of it in there, I think, could have been a way to connect what was - whatever was happening with her personal life because it was all-consuming for a while. Like, she took several years between "Frank" and "Back To Black" because she was so consumed in many ways. She lived 27 years, not, like, four years. So, like, you need to - I don't know, there needs to be more, and there wasn't for me.

THOMPSON: What did the two of you think about the portrayal of Blake? I came into this with a very, very hardened view of Blake, partially formed by the documentary and partially formed by just kind of the story as I've encountered it. I really came into this film thinking of Blake as a villain, as somebody who really ruined her life in a lot of ways. And the film, to me, felt - like, really tried to soften that. Did you get that sense, Isabella?

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Kind of. I mean, I will say I purposely, like, didn't even look at photos of Blake before this. Like, I was like, I want to go into this really clean slate. Obviously, then after, I was, like, on Google Images till 2 a.m. after the screening. Like, who is this guy? But I didn't really understand the connection between them in the film, other than it's, like, Amy is so - and maybe this is how it was in real life, but, like, Amy is so head over heels in love with him, and he seems like he couldn't really care that much or be bothered to care that much and is just, like, a bad influence and doesn't care that he's a bad influence.

I think we do see moments where he seems to be trying to help her in some way or, like, you know, the violent encounters between the two of them - I think it made me feel for him in a way that I wasn't expecting to earlier on in the relationship when he's just, like, doing drugs and clearly inciting her to go down this very, like, toxic, you know, path. But I didn't feel like it was very favorable. But again, I haven't seen the documentary. I did read lots of articles about, like, you know, the ex-husband who ruined Amy Winehouse's life, and I was like, oh, that's who this guy is. OK, like...

HARRIS: Well, the documentary doesn't really draw a clear line between her starting to take hard drugs. Like, it definitely makes it like they enabled each other, but I came out of this feeling, you know, similarly about him as I did about Mitch, where I think that, like, no one in this film - and not to say that there should be a villain per se because addiction - we should be clear.

THOMPSON: Right.

HARRIS: Like, you have to want to help yourself, and there's only so much everyone else can do for you. But, man, I still think, like, there are a lot of enablers and people - even Raye, the manager, like, only pops up for a half second in here. And in the documentary, like, he and Mitch seemed to be really tight. The fact that this didn't have any sort of, like, clear villain in a way is not necessarily a bad thing, but like you said, Stephen, there's no real point of view here. And that's kind of where it comes down, is, like, oh, you know, isn't this sad? And it's like, that's not the takeaway.

THOMPSON: I thought it was sad before I watched this movie.

HARRIS: I know.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Yeah. And it doesn't...

HARRIS: Yeah.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: ...Say anything about it being sad. It's just kind of like, oh.

HARRIS: Yeah, I feel like the paparazzi got off really easy in this movie. Like, we don't even get half of, like, how terrible it was...

THOMPSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...And all the late-night jokes that were being cracked about her. And, like, again, we live in this era of, like, we're trying to reclaim our female pop stars, and that just didn't happen. And, you know, there are limitations to that sort of narrative, and it's become a trope now, but I feel like...

THOMPSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...That would have at least made it maybe a little bit more of an interesting movie than the thing we got here.

THOMPSON: All right. Well, we want to know what you think about "Back To Black." Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/pchh. Up next, What Is Making Us Happy This Week?

Now, it's time for our favorite segment of this week, and every week, What Is Making Us Happy This Week? Isabella Gomez Sarmiento, what is making you happy this week?

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: So what's making me happy this week is the resurgence of puppets on TikTok. But there is one account in particular. It's a singer-songwriter named Sophie Truax. Their handle is @sophietruax, T-R-U-A-X. They create these puppets that are kind of like the characters in their songs. So they have one for themself, and it's, like, a puppet with a septum ring that wears bolo ties. They have some for their exes, and it's these really, like, hipster-looking puppets with beanies and cigarettes, and the whole thing is hilarious. But they posted this video that cracked me up of them doing puppet ventriloquism of Sabrina Carpenter's "Espresso."

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

SOPHIE TRUAX: Here's me doing it with ventriloquism. (Singing) I'm working late 'cause I'm a singer. Oh, he looks so cute wrapped around my finger.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: And that's Sophie Truax on TikTok. I love their puppets, and I think it's such a fun account. So that's been really getting me through the week.

THOMPSON: Nice. Thank you, Isabella. Aisha Harris, what's making you happy this week, buddy?

HARRIS: Well, I'm going to keep it on the internet, and I'm going to talk about Tyler Joseph Ellis, who's an actor on TikTok and Instagram who has recurring bits about catty judgmental theater people. And as someone who has - was a theater kid, this is right in my wheelhouse. It is very niche. One of my favorite recurring bits of his is POV, you approach the senior theater kids. Ooh, man - bringing me back. In one of them, he has this moment where he is pretending to be one of the senior theater kids as he's judging one of the younger kids for saying that their favorite musical is "Beauty And The Beast."

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

TYLER JOSEPH ELLIS: The next time someone asks you what your favorite musical is, don't say a Disney property unless it's "Hunchback." Maybe "Lion King," if you're careful, 'cause it makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about, and it's a little embarrassing - like, not a great first impression, to be completely honest with you. So next time, just say "Falsettos" or "Ragtime," if you want people to respect you.

HARRIS: And you know what? It just tickles my soul because I've been there. I love it. It's Tyler Joseph Ellis on TikTok and Instagram.

THOMPSON: Wonderful. Thank you, Aisha Harris. Well, this week, it was real easy for me to pick what is making me happy because it is the week that we announced the winner of our 10th annual...

HARRIS: Yay.

THOMPSON: ...Tiny Desk...

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Woo-hoo.

THOMPSON: ...Contest. And this year, the winner is an artist from Sacramento, Calif., called The Philharmonik, and it's Philharmonik with a K. And part of what I love about their song "What's It All Mean?" - it's completely timeless. It would have made a great Stevie Wonder song. It would have made a great '90s neo soul song. It makes a great song in 2024. Also, watch the video that they submitted. They do this song not just in front of a desk, but kind of in an office full of desks, and watching it, it is this great, beautiful, cool, timeless song, but it's also somebody who really thought about the Tiny Desk in clever ways. And so I'm just delighted by it. Let's actually hear a little bit of the song, 'cause it's a great one.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WHAT'S IT ALL MEAN?")

THE PHILHARMONIK: (Singing) Or invest in my health and acquire much wealth. Either way, it's all vain 'cause we'll end up the same. What's it all mean? What's it all mean? What's it all mean?

THOMPSON: So that was "What's It All Mean?" by The Philharmonik. They are the winners of the 10th annual Tiny Desk Contest. Look for their Tiny Desk concert in the days to come. And that is what is making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Aisha Harris, Isabella Gomez Sarmiento, thanks so much for being here.

HARRIS: Thank you.

GOMEZ SARMIENTO: Thank you so much.

THOMPSON: This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Hafsa Fathima and edited by Mike Katzif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy, and Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

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