Review
Pop Culture Happy Hour
Review
Pop Culture Happy Hour
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
GLEN WELDON, HOST:
"Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga" is a film packed with bone-crunching practical stunts and lots of gnarly diesel-powered chase scenes. And like its predecessor, "Mad Max: Fury Road," it shows a commitment to world-building that grapples with themes of feminism, environmentalism, brutality and humanity.
STEPHEN THOMPSON, HOST:
It's the story of a girl taken from her home and raised to be a warrior in a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Anya Taylor-Joy plays Furiosa as she gets swept up in the clash between two ruthless warlords. I'm Stephen Thompson.
WELDON: And I'm Glen Weldon, and today we're talking about "Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. Joining us today is NPR producer Mallory Yu. Hey, there, Mallory.
MALLORY YU, BYLINE: Hey, Glen.
WELDON: Hey. Also with this is Vulture TV critic Roxana Hadadi. Hey, Roxana.
ROXANA HADADI: Hello. Hello.
WELDON: Hello. "Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga" is a prequel. It's the story of how the character of Furiosa, played in the 2015 film by Charlize Theron, came to be. We meet her at age 10 when she's played by Alyla Browne. She's abducted from her green idyllic home by a biker hoard led by Dementus. He's played by Chris Hemsworth. Over the course of 15 years, Furiosa, played as an adult by Anya Taylor-Joy, becomes a high-ranking soldier working for Immortan Joe, the villain you might remember from "Fury Road." He's played this time out by Lachy Hulme. But she's gripped by the desire to return to her childhood home and to seek revenge on Dementus.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "FURIOSA: A MAD MAX SAGA")
ANYA TAYLOR-JOY: (As Imperator Furiosa) Remember me?
CHRIS HEMSWORTH: (As Dementus) You fabulous thing. You crawled out of a pitiless grave deeper than hell. Only one thing's going to do that for you, and not hope - hate.
WELDON: This is the fifth "Mad Max" film, and, like all the others, it's directed by George Miller. "Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga" is in theaters now. Roxana, "Fury Road" was, I think, your top film of that decade. How did you feel about the prequel?
HADADI: I went in with no knowledge. I was like, if I'm going to come into this, I don't want to watch a trailer. I don't want to read a...
WELDON: Smart.
HADADI: ...press kit. I want to just be completely coming in with no expectations whatsoever, which really was the way to go. This movie just knocked me back. It is not "Fury Road." I think it is probably impossible to recreate "Fury Road." But thematically, I mean, even that clip we just listened to - the idea of hate versus hope, what is a stronger motivator? How do you survive? I love all that thematic stuff that this movie does and just everything about it. There were so many moments where I hit the friend that I was seeing it with in, like, extreme excitement...
YU: Yes.
HADADI: ...About, like, the action sequences and Junkie XL's score, and it is incredibly rich and also incredibly dark, I think, in a way that these movies have not been in a long time. So I am enthusiastically pro, for a number of reasons that I'm sure we will talk about.
HADADI: Cool, cool. OK, how about you, Mallory?
YU: I was also pretty pro on this movie. I walked in wanting to believe in George Miller, but feeling kind of skeptical about whether it was going to capture me the way that "Fury Road" did, which became such an intensely personal movie, and it sort of arose at a really pivotal point in my life. I instinctively wanted to protect that experience almost and protect my love for this, like, really singular piece of filmmaking and storytelling.
But honestly, walking out of "Furiosa," I was like, I know why George Miller made this, and it's because he has had this world in his head for so long, and it is so big at this point that he might as well just put it out there and have fun with it and let us have fun with it, too. And that's what I did. Like Roxana said, it's not "Fury Road," and it isn't trying to be.
HADADI: Yeah.
YU: And I was like, I get it now. I understand why you cast Anya Taylor-Joy. I understand why you wanted to make this film. George Miller told Ari Shapiro that "Furiosa" was a different exercise in storytelling. And for me, I think that really sums it up. It's just a fun "Mad Max" movie that is loud and bombastic and also lets us have quiet moments, too.
WELDON: That's true. And it is, as you mentioned, as you both mentioned, there's a level of lore here that a film like this doesn't normally have. We'll talk about that. But first, Stephen, give me your thoughts.
THOMPSON: Well, it's interesting. I'm - I have talked on this show repeatedly about my generalized disdain for prequels. I'm not necessarily needing to know how we got to a place we've already seen a different movie go. But this, I felt, was one of the best prequels I have ever seen. And I think one of the reasons for that is that, at least for me, the biggest appeal of these films is the action set pieces, the practical effects, the stunt work, the vroom, vroom. There are definitely contemplative moments in this film, but this is not a quiet film (laughter). This is, OK, we're going to drive this giant tricked-out rig from point A to point B, and I know that that will take 45 minutes because an absolute onslaught of vehicles and stilt men and paragliders.
YU: Stuff happening.
THOMPSON: (Laughter) And, you know, that's the movie. And Anya Taylor-Joy probably says about 150 words (laughter)...
YU: Maximum (laughter).
THOMPSON: ...In this whole film. So, like, is it touching on larger themes? Absolutely. But you can ignore them completely. It is a post-apocalyptic world. It is punishing. It is dark. It is violent. It is kind of unrelenting in ways that if you don't go into it kind of in the right head space, being ready for kind of 2 1/2 hours of pummeling, I can imagine it feeling a little bit wearying. But for the most part, I just kind of sat there like, yeah, and wasn't really distracted by much else, except every once in a while, I would kind of sit there and picture myself like, if I were a character in this movie...
WELDON: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...Who would I be?
WELDON: Yeah.
THOMPSON: And that was usually, like, a peasant who would say, have you thought about solar? Before getting killed.
YU: Yes. I would be an underling in a tunnel, probably.
WELDON: Yeah, I'd be one of those people in the tunnels.
HADADI: Yeah.
WELDON: Yes, absolutely.
HADADI: A hundred percent.
WELDON: OK, so it's unanimous. This is a fun time at the movies, a good old-fashioned fun time at the movies. And I just love - I mean, you got characters named Scrotus and Rictus Erectus and Smeg. And it's, like, that happens, and I'm like, thank you for not making me work too hard to figure out which patch of real estate of the Jungian collective unconscious we're playing in here.
YU: Yes.
WELDON: I appreciate that. Don't make me work too hard. Certainly, you're going to get your money's worth. Let's be service journalism.
THOMPSON: Yeah.
WELDON: A, it's 2 1/2 hours. You will check your phone, however - I'm going to say that - because it is 2 1/2 hours. And also, I think there are times in this movie when the action doesn't so much escalate as kind of iterate. We kind of...
THOMPSON: Sure.
HADADI: Right.
WELDON: ...Plateau somewhere in the middle, which I found surprising. And no, as we're all saying, it's not the revelation that "Fury Road" was. It was never going to be, because now we're vamping on set pieces we've seen before. We're adding ultralights and fan gliders. But at the end of the day, it delivers what it promises. My question to y'all is the manner in which it delivers it because there is a much greater use of CGI this time around. And that struck me because a big reason that "Fury Road" was the movie it was because you could feel the - for lack of a better word, the risk, the danger...
HADADI: Yeah.
WELDON: ...The commitment...
HADADI: Sure.
WELDON: ...To the bit. That movie felt like a rejection of the modern Hollywood aesthetic in general and the Marvel aesthetic in particular. And I'm wondering...
THOMPSON: Yeah.
WELDON: ...If you noticed that, if that addition of CGI - if that mattered to any of you.
THOMPSON: I only noticed it when fire was involved.
WELDON: Ah.
THOMPSON: There is still an uncanny valley with fire. CGI has not fully solved fire the way they have solved water.
YU: Yeah.
THOMPSON: And so anytime somebody would get hit with, like, a flaming arrow and kind of burst into flame, that took me out of the practical effects and into, like, I'm watching CGI. But otherwise, it's still totally kinetic, right?
YU: I agree.
HADADI: Yeah. I think that probably the only time I really noticed it in a way that I was like, oh - there is a action set piece at the Citadel where suddenly - God, how do I talk about this without spoiling things? There are a lot of things happening in the frame, and it seems like maybe half of them are CGI. And so there is a little bit of, like, oh, there's so many things happening here. How could this be pulled off practically? But I think I just got stuck on there are so many things happening here.
(LAUGHTER)
YU: Yes.
HADADI: Distinct, really specific things. I didn't feel the CGI overload I feel in Marvel movies...
WELDON: Sure.
HADADI: ...Where everything becomes sort of, like, muddy and monotonous. I didn't feel that. I still felt here is a fully realized idea for which some elements are CGI, rather than this has become the only mode that the...
WELDON: Yeah.
HADADI: ...Movie...
YU: Is useful.
HADADI: ...Knows how to speak in. Right?
YU: Yeah.
HADADI: So I think I forgave it, but I maybe forgave a lot about this movie.
(LAUGHTER)
YU: Yeah, I think I also didn't have an issue with it because it felt like the CGI was enhancing what was already happening...
WELDON: Yeah.
YU: ...In real life.
HADADI: Yeah.
YU: It wasn't just, you know, people in front of a green screen necessarily.
THOMPSON: Yeah. The lack of green screen effects is what mattered the most to me. Like, I've watched a lot of Marvel movies where you're just watching actors go, whoa.
WELDON: Yeah.
THOMPSON: And, like, that is not what the issue is here. The issue...
YU: Right.
THOMPSON: ...Here is, like, you can spot that some things are happening in real-time and some things are added in post, which is not the same as, like, what am I even watching? I'm just, like, this is - it doesn't feel studio-bound.
WELDON: Right. Well, that's the thing. I noticed it most in a kind of meta way, which I didn't want to be meta in this movie. I wanted to be in it. But, like, there are tracking shots that defy physics. Now, a lot of effort has been made to make the instances of people falling off a vehicle to their death, which happens many times...
YU: Many.
WELDON: ...In this film.
HADADI: So many times.
YU: So many.
WELDON: But I'm going to push back, Stephen. Whenever there's an exterior shot that was clearly shot against a green screen, that felt to me like going to McDonald's and getting the salad. I can get a salad anywhere. That is not why I'm here, right? You know what I mean?
HADADI: I really like McDonald's salad.
WELDON: OK.
YU: (Laughter).
HADADI: If you're still giving me, like, the crispy chicken patty - like, that's...
WELDON: OK.
HADADI: ...That's what I want.
THOMPSON: (Laughter).
WELDON: Can we talk a little bit more about the issue you raised, Stephen, about this backstory for "Furiosa"? I kept thinking about the Patton Oswalt bit about the "Star Wars"...
THOMPSON: Yeah.
WELDON: ...Prequels where he goes off on the idea that anybody cares about what Darth Vader was like as a child. He says, I don't care where the stuff I love comes from. I just love the stuff I love. I want that as a cross-stitch sampler. Furiosa does not have the cultural cachet of Vader, but she is intriguing, right? And Miller has said that they wrote this version of her backstory before shooting "Fury Road." They gave it to Charlize Theron so she could have that psychological rounding.
THOMPSON: Yeah.
WELDON: So she had it. She found it helpful. You said it was the best prequel ever, Stephen. But, like, did it offer you anything surprising about the character, or did it just fill in stuff that you already kind of knew?
THOMPSON: I think, for the most part, it filled in stuff I already knew, and I definitely found myself kind of mentally checking boxes. How did Furiosa get her arm? I also still thought it was, like, a strong physical performance.
WELDON: Sure.
THOMPSON: I just honestly - like, this sounds reductive, but I honestly wasn't there for the lore. I'm rarely there for the lore. I'm there for thrills.
WELDON: You're there for, as you say, vroom, vroom, vroom.
THOMPSON: Vroom (laughter).
HADADI: I imagine that Stephen in the theater is just vroom-vrooming, and that's incredibly charming. Like, sorry if anyone doesn't like it, but I'm a big fan of (laughter) imagining this. I don't know. I think that I agree that I had sort of, like, a OK-here's-the-thing-that-got-us-to-the-thing mentality. But I do think that the storyline involving the character played by Tom Burke, who is sort of Furiosa's, like, mentor/partner - I really loved that, actually. And I know that we're sort of saying, like, we're not really always here for the story, but that whole section of the movie, I think, surprised me the most and moved me the most and gave me the most understanding of what sort of personal cost does war have in this specific world.
YU: Yes.
HADADI: I know we disagree on, like, Praetorian Jack is hot. I say yes. But I think...
YU: Yes.
HADADI: ...Ultimately, the subplot was effective in giving me another fest of Furiosa that the rest of the movie, with all of its sort of, like, box-checking, had not given me.
YU: It's interesting 'cause there were parts of the movie that I wanted to see more of, and Praetorian Jack was one of them. Like, I wish that I could have had a little bit more between the two of them.
HADADI: Yeah.
YU: I really liked what we got, and I wanted a bit more. Like, I feel like that section could have been almost a movie in itself. I think for me, partially what made "Fury Road" so impactful was that it was a two-hour - at its barest bones, it's a two-hour-long car chase sequence.
WELDON: Yeah.
YU: Right?
THOMPSON: Sure.
WELDON: Right.
YU: It managed to convey this fully formed world and universe and even inner life of Furiosa. So this movie - I don't know if I would have enjoyed it or if it would have arrested me quite as much if this was the first "Mad Max" I was watching. But I liked that it returned to a character that I already have in my head and showed me a little bit more beneath the surface. Maybe it didn't surprise me, but I also don't know that I needed it to.
WELDON: No, I get that. I get that. I mean, I was surprised by the Tom Burke as Praetorian Jack stuff. And we do disagree. I think they just kind of made him a less interesting version of Mad Max, a not particularly angry Max, a maybe a bit miffed Max.
HADADI: Just, like, a chill, doing his job 9 to 5...
THOMPSON: Competent.
WELDON: Yeah.
HADADI: Yeah. Just like a - just a guy.
WELDON: Plugging away Max.
YU: He's emotionally separate from his work.
HADADI: Yeah. Honestly, aspirational.
WELDON: Yeah, OK. Can we talk a little bit about something this film has that "Fury Road" doesn't, which is Chris Hemsworth as Dementus?
THOMPSON: Sure.
WELDON: Talk to me about what Chris Hemsworth brought to Dementus, and I'm not just talking about the fake nose, but if you want to talk about the fake nose, go ahead.
HADADI: I called it his Eddie Redmayne in "Jupiter Ascending" performance.
THOMPSON: Oh, wow.
WELDON: (Laughter).
THOMPSON: That is a...
WELDON: That is...
YU: Wow.
WELDON: ...High praise.
HADADI: Totally complimentary. I think Hemsworth has not done a ton outside of Thor that other people have noticed. Like...
WELDON: Sure.
HADADI: ...I love "Blackhat." I think he's great in "Blackhat," but I don't think he's gotten that one role that sort of, like, showcases all that he's capable of. And when he appears wearing this, like, dyed red parachute as cape just taking over the screen - there's a lot of really dark humor in this universe, and I think he got that tonally and what he needed to provide to counter the fact that Furiosa is a mostly silent character. She's an observer, and he is going to give her something to observe. And it really - I really liked that balance...
WELDON: Sure.
HADADI: ...Between the two of them.
YU: I also loved his, like, physical performance...
HADADI: Yeah.
YU: ...Too, just the way that he moved his body. There is a sequence where he runs across the sand dunes, and I so felt the, like, effort that that took, the way that he threw his body onto the ground. I'm like, you really went for that. I felt that thud.
THOMPSON: (Laughter) Yeah, I think you're right that it uses the entire Chris Hemsworth toolkit. It would be a waste of Chris Hemsworth to not have him have a degree of charm and to not have a degree of silliness. Chris Hemsworth is a very good comic actor, but he also has to be legitimately scary, and he has to have a legitimately imposing presence, or else why would you cast somebody the size of Chris Hemsworth?
WELDON: Sure.
THOMPSON: I think it's a really nice - balanced isn't necessarily the word I expected to use to describe this performance, but it draws on a lot of different pieces of his toolkit without over-relying on any one.
WELDON: Right, 'cause we get a bit of the bluff bluster of Thor...
YU: Yeah.
WELDON: ...But that's not the entire performance. There is also a bit of self-awareness and intelligence that kind of sneaks through - not a lot of intelligence. I mean, he uses a lot of AP English words, but he doesn't always pronounce them correctly. At one point, he says piquaint (ph), when he means...
YU: Piquant.
WELDON: ...Piquant.
YU: Yes.
WELDON: So that's a really nice touch. I really enjoy him in this because it's exactly what you guys are saying. He does bring a lot to a role that doesn't necessarily scream out for a lot. Is there anything else you guys want to hit that we haven't talked about yet?
HADADI: The ending is so - it's so metal. Like, what other word could I say...
YU: Yeah.
HADADI: ...To describe that ending? But the ending really - I think so much of the end of this movie is about, like, the turn of Furiosa as a character to really get her to that "Mad Max: Fury Road" place. I think that ending just does that in such, like, a visceral, gross, effective way that I really think it, like, recast the rest of the movie for me to get it to, like, a really - I don't know, just, like, a really dark unsettling last few minutes. And I really - like, I appreciated that that's where we ended. It didn't feel like the ending was, I don't know, landing in a tonally false place. It really felt like for the movie that we saw, you know, for as horrible and bleak as it was, ultimately, I think that ending worked.
YU: And it made sense for the character.
HADADI: Yeah.
YU: I really liked that it let Furiosa do something that I was not expecting and maybe wouldn't even like her doing.
HADADI: Yeah.
YU: I loved the choice.
HADADI: Yeah. I liked it.
THOMPSON: Roxana, I think you touched on the exact adjective that is the through line across all these movies, is they are metal.
YU: Metal.
THOMPSON: And if you go in wanting a metal filmgoing experience, this is the movie for you, man.
WELDON: This is the movie for you if you want, again, a good old-fashioned good time at the movies. Tell us what you think about "Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga." Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/pchh. Up next, What Is Making Us Happy This Week?
Now it is time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, What Is Making Us Happy This Week? Roxana, kick us off. What is making you happy this week?
HADADI: What is making me happy this week is the books by Megan Abbott...
WELDON: OK.
HADADI: ...Who writes sort of, like, domestic meets horror thriller novels. I started with a short story she wrote called "The Little Men." And I read normally in bed in that time between, like, midnight and 1 to help me fall asleep. And the story begins with a woman hearing weird noises in her house that keep her up at night. And I was like, this is too close. It was exceptional. It was creepy. It was very vividly rendered.
And so I've moved on to her other books - "You Will Know Me," which is about a teen gymnast and some drama that happens to her family, and "Give Me Your Hand," which is about two rival postdoc researchers and their shared history. So I think these books are just really immersive. They have creepy touches that I did not expect. You know, like, there's sort of become a formula to women's thriller writing. And everything I've read so far from Megan Abbott just takes that formula and knocks it on its you know what. So that's what's making me happy this week.
WELDON: All right. Cool. That is the collected works of Megan Abbott. Thank you very much, Roxana. Mallory, my friend, what is making you happy this week?
YU: OK. What's been making me happy this week and the last couple of weeks, let's be real, is the K-pop group Ateez, who became the first K-pop boy group to perform at Coachella earlier this year - very cool for them. Aside from the fact that I find them all very pretty, as one would expect from a K-pop group, their music is really fun, and they're really electric performers. They also have this, like, cyberpunk Western aesthetic that I really enjoy and relates to this dystopian storyline that they're unspooling involving a world government that suppresses people's emotions. But honestly, I think you should enjoy their music without knowing any of this because that way lies quicksand. Ask me how I know.
(LAUGHTER)
YU: Anyway, of the many songs of theirs that I have on repeat lately, I'll highlight a couple. My personal favorite is "Halazia," and a more recent and upbeat one called "Bouncy (K-Hot Chilli Peppers)" specifically because of the chorus.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BOUNCY (K-HOT CHILLI PEPPERS)")
ATEEZ: (Rapping) Slow it down. Make it bouncy (rapping in Korean) spicy, Cheongyang gochu vibe. If you want to know how, I can show you right now (rapping in Korean) bouncy...
YU: Cheongyang gochu is a type of Korean chili pepper that's known for being way spicier than normal Korean peppers. So basically, they're saying their vibe is a different level of spicy. It's so silly and bombastic and catchy. I love it. Also, did I mention that they're very pretty?
WELDON: Yes, you did.
YU: The group is Ateez. It's spelled A-T-E-E-Z.
THOMPSON: Nice.
WELDON: Thank you very much, Mallory. Great pick. Stephen, what is making you happy this week?
THOMPSON: What is making me happy is also a piece of music. "Hit Me Hard And Soft" is the new album by Billie Eilish. It is nice to hear an inventive, creative, ethereal pop record. It does kind of synth-pop really, really well. Actually, let's hear a little bit of one of those, like, terrific synth-pop songs. This is - let's hear a little bit of "Birds Of A Feather."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BIRDS OF A FEATHER")
BILLIE EILISH: (Singing) It might not be long, but, baby, I don't want to say goodbye. Birds of a feather, we should stick together, I know ('til the day that I die). I said I'd never think I wasn't better alone ('til the light leaves my eyes).
THOMPSON: So you can kind of hear the woozy effervescence of it all. But this record goes a little harder and goes a little deeper and gets a little stranger. Songs kind of take hairpin turns partway through and kind of explore different sides of her sound. I just think Billie Eilish is at such an interesting point in her career. She and her brother Finneas are coming off their second Oscar win for "What Was I Made For?" from "Barbie." And this album, I think, kind of uses that song as a jumping-off point. It's still exploring that torchier side of her voice, but it's taking it in some poppier directions at the same time. I'm loving this record, and I'm - it's definitely one that I'm going to keep coming back to all summer. That's "Hit Me Hard And Soft" by Billie Eilish.
WELDON: Thank you very much, Stephen. Love that. All right, so what's making me happy this week? "Valley Heat" is a scripted comedy podcast that pretends it is neither one of those things. I am very late to this, and I don't like being late to things. I like to get the cultural finder's fee, you know, and be the first person to recommend this. But The New York Times has profiled it. Friend of the show Dave Holmes has recommended it.
But do not jump into the most recent episodes. Start at the beginning because this thing builds. Now, you'll notice I haven't said what it's about. That's because when I heard what it was about, I was like, meh, maybe not for me. It's about a middle-aged white guy making a podcast about his neighborhood, the Rancho Equestrian District of Burbank, Calif. And he talks about extremely white suburban going-ons around his - around him, pool cleaners and foosball tournaments and car washes and classic rock.
And he reads the ads for his local sponsors who buy them to support the podcast, and these ads are my favorite part of it all. The less you know about it going in, the better. Just know that it is bone dry, that it builds and builds and builds, that the cast of characters keeps growing and keeps getting weirder. If you know the comedy team of Scharpling & Wurster, think of this as a...
THOMPSON: Love them.
WELDON: ...Very, very West Coast version of that. That is the podcast "Valley Heat," available wherever you get podcasts. And that is what's making me happy this week. And if you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Stephen Thompson, Roxana Hadadi, Mallory Yu, thank you all for being here.
HADADI: Thank you.
YU: Always fun to be here.
THOMPSON: Thank you.
WELDON: This episode was produced by Rommel Wood and edited by Mike Katzif and Jessica Reedy. And Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Glen Weldon, and we'll see you all next week.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
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