Review
Pop Culture Happy Hour
Review
Pop Culture Happy Hour
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
LINDA HOLMES, HOST:
The entertaining dark comedy "Hit Man" is not about a hired killer. It's about a guy who pretends to be a hired killer. In fact, he pretends to be a great many different things, a great many different people, who are all, to be clear, hired killers.
STEPHEN THOMPSON, HOST:
The film stars Glen Powell as a mild-mannered professor who also works for the police as an undercover fake hitman. I'm Stephen Thompson.
HOLMES: And I'm Linda Holmes, and today we're talking about "Hit Man" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. Here with me and Stephen is our fellow co-host Aisha Harris. Hey, Aisha.
AISHA HARRIS, HOST:
Hey, Linda.
HOLMES: And also with us as podcast producer and film and culture critic Cate Young. Hey, Cate. Always good to see you.
CATE YOUNG: Hi again.
HOLMES: "Hit Man" is directed by Richard Linklater, the quintessentially Texan filmmaker who did the "Before" trilogy and "Dazed And Confused" and "Bernie," which is maybe the most direct relative of "Hit Man." He co-wrote the screenplay with movie star of the moment Glen Powell, who stars as Gary Johnson. Based pretty loosely on a real guy who was written up in Texas Monthly, Gary is a professor of philosophy who moonlights undercover for the police. His specialty is pretending to be a hired killer. When the police learn that somebody has been trying to hire a hit man, they send in Gary to pretend to be the man for the job. He gets the person to enter into the contract, and then they're caught.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HIT MAN")
GLEN POWELL: (As Gary Johnson) But because hit men have been a staple of books, movies and TV for the last 50 years, good luck getting anyone to believe their existence is all a myth. But, of course, my job was not to debunk the fantasy, but rather become the fantasy.
HOLMES: One day, he meets with a woman named Madison, played by Adria Arjona, who wants him to kill her abusive husband. But rather than going through the usual motions and getting her arrested, he talks her out of it. And then they start to get to know each other, and the story unfolds from there. "Hit Man" is now streaming on Netflix. Aisha, I know you became fond of "Hit Man" during its festival run. Tell me about you and "Hit Man."
HARRIS: I really enjoyed this. It could be perhaps because the first time I watched it I'd just gone kind of down, like, a Steven Soderbergh rabbit hole, and I had been watching a lot of movies, and I had just watched "Out Of Sight." And this movie, to me, gave sort of similar vibes as "Out Of Sight." It's kind of a ridiculous plot, silly. I know this is based on a true story, but it's still kind of absurd that this random philosophy professor is also moonlighting as a hitman. It's just weird. But I really, really enjoyed how this kind of plays with different genres, including the thriller, the sort of action-y movie, but it's also a romantic comedy, and it's also kind of film noir, like a neo-noir.
And this is probably the first time that I've been, like, very drawn to Glen Powell as a performer. I've seen him in a lot of things. But this is the first time I've actually been like, oh, this guy - I get it. I get it now. And I think that he and Gary have very similar sort of (laughter) trajectories in a way that maybe we can talk about later, but just the fact that, like, I think this is a role that is perfectly suited for him really made me enjoy this film a lot. And I just like seeing Richard Linklater be funny every once in a while.
HOLMES: All right. Stephen, how about you? Did you like this one?
THOMPSON: I came down very similarly to Aisha, right up to and including saying out loud several times over the course of this film, oh, I get it - about Glen Powell because I had been very Glen Powell agnostic - just seemed like a good-looking guy with a nice smile and didn't really have a sense of who he was beyond that. This really kind of takes advantage of his kind of easy charisma. I think he and Adria Arjona have real chemistry. I think that's where kind of the "Out Of Sight" parallels come in, is you have...
HARRIS: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...You're getting to see actual on-screen chemistry and not just telling in lieu of showing.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HIT MAN")
ADRIA ARJONA: (As Maddy Masters) Welcome to Madison Airlines.
POWELL: (As Gary Johnson) Where are we flying?
ARJONA: (As Maddy Masters) Somewhere hot and tropical. Please follow me to the upper deck.
POWELL: (As Gary Johnson) First class all the way.
ARJONA: (As Maddy Masters) Shh. Please unbuckle your seat belt. It's for your own safety.
THOMPSON: I did feel like as this movie kind of got into its third act, it makes a few narrative choices that I wasn't quite as on board with. It comes to some ethical conclusions that I did not - that you're not necessarily going to entirely agree with, for a movie that is otherwise a little bit frictionless in a good way up to that point. But on balance, I really, really enjoyed this one.
HOLMES: All right. How about you, Cate Young?
YOUNG: I - oh, I didn't like it.
THOMPSON: Oh, no.
HARRIS: It's OK. It's all right.
YOUNG: I mean, this movie has everything that should make it my favorite movie of the year, plus Glen Powell, and I still didn't like it.
HOLMES: Yeah.
YOUNG: It's difficult for me to even articulate because I don't think the movie is necessarily bad. I wouldn't warn anyone off of it. I don't think it's good, either. I just feel like it was a waste of two hours or four hours, 'cause I watched it twice just to make sure.
HOLMES: Oh, wow. You did your homework.
THOMPSON: I appreciate the commitment.
HOLMES: What do you think it is about it?
YOUNG: I'm not sure. There's just kind of, like, a blandness that I never quite was able to get over. And part of that is intentional because that is where that character begins. But even as the movie continues, it just - it didn't feel like it really rose above that. And I think even as that character makes that emotional change and follows it with that physical and social change, the movie doesn't feel like it's changed anyway. I felt like the perspective hadn't changed. And to Stephen's point, like, there were some choices I just didn't like, like some of the characterizations that I just found annoying. I was not a fan of Madison, not even a little bit. Like, I just - vibes were off. Like, I just - I wanted to like this movie so bad, and I just don't.
HOLMES: Yeah. Let me start with the things that I did like about this movie. I think this Glen Powell performance, as people have already talked about - I think this is a performance that makes the case for why he is currently somebody people are very interested in as a movie star.
YOUNG: Definitely.
HOLMES: He probably comes as close as a guy that handsome is going to come to seeming plausibly dorky. Right? And then you do see him make this turn, and particularly in the persona of Ron, the sexy hit man. He is very sexy. And there's a funny scene where his kind of police associates, including a woman played by Retta, who I'm happy to see always...
THOMPSON: Yeah.
HOLMES: ...In anything...
HARRIS: Yeah.
HOLMES: ...Have a really funny conversation about how attracted they all are to him, essentially, as Ron.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HIT MAN")
RETTA: (As Claudette) He's like a Caucasian Idris.
SANJAY RAO: (As Phil) I would love to grab a beer with that guy, and I'm not talking about Gary.
RETTA: (As Claudette) I would get blackout drunk with Ron.
RAO: (As Phil) I'd let him talk me into ripping lines on the way to Vegas.
RETTA: (As Claudette) I would rip my IUD out for Ron.
HOLMES: I also think that few people have the touch that Linklater has with just conversation between two people that brings kind of a sexiness to their initial kind of getting to know each other. And you do get to enjoy some of that here, and I very much enjoyed that.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HIT MAN")
POWELL: (As Gary Johnson) Do you know someone who's lost a child to a murderous, jealous cat? I'm just trying to do my fact-checking here.
ARJONA: (As Maddy Masters) Not, like, personally.
POWELL: (As Gary Johnson) OK.
ARJONA: (As Maddy Masters) But I've heard it from, like, a lot of people.
POWELL: (As Gary Johnson) Well, there you go. We've got to get to the bottom of this.
ARJONA: (As Maddy Masters) I agree.
HOLMES: I think this film is well-executed - no pun intended - as what it is, right? But I've got to admit I wanted it to be something else. And I recognize the difference between the thing is not good and the thing was not what I wanted. But I think because I had heard people throw around the idea that it was a romantic comedy or that it was a...
YOUNG: Yep.
HOLMES: ...Romance, which I don't think it is - I think It has certainly what I would consider a couple of romantic comedy scenes.
THOMPSON: Sure.
HOLMES: But it is not a romantic comedy as a story to me, partly because there's a really interesting quote that I read from Linklater talking about the fact that Madison is this very kind of sexy, hot, femme fatale type. And one of the things he said was, like, well, yeah, she's super hot because it's all from his perspective. That is not a romantic comedy when you are openly saying this person is defined by the fact that it's all from the other person's perspective. It's a character piece about him, and it's perhaps a noir. As Aisha said, it has neo-noir vibes. But I found her pretty underbaked as a character.
HARRIS: Yeah.
HOLMES: I think you get these kind of notes that she comes from a place of having been abused by her husband, but there's not really much in the way of exploration of that. So for me, I think I felt a little bit of what Cate felt, that it just felt a little empty to me, despite the fact that it had a lot of kind of surface-level pleasures. But I - yeah, that third act, I felt the same way. I was like, yeah, this isn't what I wanted to watch.
YOUNG: Yeah. I think what you said about it being a character piece explains a lot of the issues that I had with Madison because one of the things that frustrated me is that we meet her as this really downtrodden character. She's obviously meeting a hit man. She - things are bad enough that she wants to kill someone. But once that happens, there's a very sharp turn in the way that she kind of moves through the world, in a way that did not feel realistic to me because if she is where she began, she does not immediately go to where she went. It just doesn't make sense. And if I'm looking at that through his perspective as someone who is a dork and now feels sexy, that makes way more sense.
HOLMES: She's a fantasy, basically, at that point.
YOUNG: Yeah.
HOLMES: And I think that, you know, for me, it felt a little bit like she is responding to him, but she's not really responding to her own circumstances. And I think I kept expecting a turn about her that would change your understanding of her and kind of explain some of these things that are hard to explain. And that didn't really come, and I think that was part of where I got frustrated.
THOMPSON: Having Linklater say that, like, she's like that because it's from his perspective is really an ungenerous way (laughter) of - like, he is being very ungenerous about his own character 'cause I sort of felt like you're not necessarily supposed to know where she's coming from in part because you're supposed to be kept guessing.
HARRIS: Yeah.
THOMPSON: You're supposed to be wondering what her motivations are. Is she a good guy? Is she a bad guy? Is she on the up-and-up? Is she sincere about whatever? I felt like that opaqueness was kind of part of the central puzzle that needed to be solved. And so I wasn't as bothered by the kind of seeming inconsistencies or shifts in her character.
HARRIS: I think that the rom-com genre is probably - descriptor is probably the wrong thing to put on this. Erotic comedy is probably more accurate...
YOUNG: I could see it.
HARRIS: ...Because they do have a lot of - there's a lot of sexy scenes. We've complained about there not being enough, and there's a lot of sexy scenes here. I completely hear both you, Linda and Cate, as to feeling kind of like the vibes are off because I do think this is, like, a very strangely paced film. Like, it takes a while...
YOUNG: Yeah, very so.
HARRIS: ...To even get to, like...
HOLMES: Yeah.
HARRIS: ...What exactly is the premise here? You know, I watched it with someone else the second time. And for the first, like, 45 minutes, they're like, I don't understand what's happening.
YOUNG: Oh, really?
HARRIS: And it isn't until the third act where they were like, oh, OK, I get it. And it feels like this is not a movie that is made for, you know, our present-day sensibilities, what we're used to seeing. We're used to seeing things kind of jump in really quickly or, like, everything being very obvious. And for me, that's kind of what I liked about it.
It felt like a movie that could have been made 20, 25 years ago, that, like, just takes its time, and you're not going to exactly know what's going on here. And I think all of this sort of one-noteness to some extent of the Madison character for me, I was really able to overlook just because I do think, as Stephen said, we're trying to figure out, like, you know, is this a good person or not? And also, I just think the banter and the chemistry is really, for me, what carries this forward more than anything.
THOMPSON: Something I loved about this film that maybe Cate and Linda didn't as much was I really enjoyed some of the procedural stuff. I enjoyed some of the stuff...
HOLMES: Oh, yeah.
THOMPSON: ...Where, like, part of the job of being essentially a - he is going to be a prosecution witness in every one of these cases. And so you have these sort of courtroom scenes where he's, you know, parrying questioning from defense attorneys and stuff. And to me, like, some of just the mechanics of what it would be like to be a fake hit man, I found sort of endlessly compelling. Again, it's where I like his performance so much because he gets to be dorky. He gets to be sexy. He gets to try on these different personas. He actually does some sort of disguise and accent work. But he also just, like, gets to be, like, a smart prosecution witness. And I just really dug that kind of stuff. I kind of - I definitely remember sitting there and I kind of paused this movie about halfway through and was sort of like, I don't necessarily need this movie to get to the third act where they resolve a bunch of stuff. I just want to watch what does it mean to be a fake hitman, and how does this play into the legal system? That stuff really worked for me.
HOLMES: Yeah. And the stuff that I think they carried over from the Texas Monthly piece, which - listen, that's a very different story, right?
THOMPSON: Yes (laughter).
HOLMES: This whole business...
HARRIS: Yes.
HOLMES: ...About the femme fatale and everything - there's a nugget of it in that story, but there's - it doesn't...
THOMPSON: Not much...
HOLMES: ...Really exist.
THOMPSON: ...Of one.
HARRIS: Well, also, this is set in New Orleans as opposed to Texas.
YOUNG: Texas.
THOMPSON: Yeah.
HOLMES: Yes, they moved it. But I think that the thing that was really fascinating about him in that piece that I do think they do a good job of carrying over into the movie is this idea that he's sort of, like, a fake hit man savant, that you would never know that this was a thing someone could be super gifted at. And I think that's a really cool and interesting angle for this character.
And I think this creation - right? - sometimes you see an actor just create a character and obviously from the writing also, but you see the combination of the writing and the acting and, in this case, the costume work and the hair and makeup and things like that, create a character, and you are fascinated by that character. I just think this wasn't the story I wanted to see about him, probably because, ultimately, I find the outlook of this movie incredibly bleak.
THOMPSON: Yeah.
HOLMES: And I want my sexy comedies to make me feel a little bit good, and maybe that's a reflection of kind of where I am vis-a-vis the world right now.
THOMPSON: Sure.
HOLMES: But I don't want to walk out of a sexy comedy feeling like I just got a tough lesson in how depressing and awful the world is.
THOMPSON: There's definitely a nihilistic streak...
YOUNG: Oh, my God.
THOMPSON: ...To this film...
HOLMES: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...For sure. And if you're not up for that...
HARRIS: I guess I was just in the mood for that. I was ready for it.
(LAUGHTER)
THOMPSON: I think Aisha and I are more morally compromised.
YOUNG: Yes, yes.
HARRIS: (Laughter).
HOLMES: This movie, to me, is such a good example of the difference between a movie not being good and a movie not being what you want.
HARRIS: Yeah.
HOLMES: I think they made a very good version of exactly the thing that they intended to make, and it's done very skillfully. That montage of him doing all these different characters - (vocalizing). Loved it. So good. So much fun.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HIT MAN")
POWELL: (As character) There are three things you need to kill a man.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Yes?
POWELL: (As character) The gun...
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Right.
POWELL: (As character) ...The bullets and the balls, and, boy, I'm stockpiling all three of those things.
HOLMES: His complete transformation into these people that he's only inhabiting for, like, 30 seconds of screen time - really enjoyed that - brilliant - wanted a movie about this guy, just didn't want this one.
YOUNG: Yeah, I think despite the fact that I think he gives, like, a really wonderful performance, actually, I don't feel like I get enough of what makes him shine. That character is not - does not, to me, play best to his strengths, despite the fact that, like, he's doing a really, really good job. I personally was very impressed by how quickly he's able to, like, transform from Gary into these nameless hit men in a way that feels, like, instantaneous and kind of creepy.
HARRIS: But, see, I think that's kind of point - right? - because the film also just layers on all this pop psychology, 'cause he is a...
YOUNG: Right.
HARRIS: ...Philosophy professor. His cats are named Id and Ego, for God's sake. Like, and so I feel like that to me - I was able to go with it, just because that's clearly - when he's so quickly able to snap into it, it's the movie saying, oh, this is just a latent part of yourself that now you are finally able to tap into.
YOUNG: It's interesting to me that despite the fact that, like, that Ron character, is pitched to the tune of, like, the kind of Glen Powell performance that I would want, and it still doesn't work - tells me that, like, I think Linda is right. I think it's just not this movie for me. I think he's incredibly charming. I love watching him on screen, and I do think that there are points where he shines, and I'm like, there's my guy.
THOMPSON: (Laughter).
HOLMES: All right, well, we want to know what you think about "Hit Man." It is streaming on Netflix, and once you've had a chance to see it find us on Facebook at facebook.com/pchh. Up next, What's Making Us Happy This Week.
Now it is time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, What's Making Us Happy This Week. Aisha, other than "Hit Man," what's making you happy this week?
HARRIS: The new show "Queenie" is a dramedy that's based on a novel by Candice Carty-Williams. This is a show that I've watched the first three episodes, and I felt, OK, this feels like sort of a retread, overly familiar version of, like, insecure, survival of the thickest, like, young Black woman trying to figure out her life, and everything is going really, really wrong. But by the fourth episode, I feel like the show is doing something very, very different.
And the show stars Dionne Brown as a sort of mid-20s Londoner. She's having her young adult life crisis that I think most of us go through at some point. She breaks up with her long-term boyfriend. Her career is not going the way she wants it to, and she has, like, a very dysfunctional family. And once Episode 4 kind of comes around, I realize that the show is doing something a little bit different or trying to tap into themes that I think are a lot more specific in viewpoint, and they, for me, at least, resonated a lot more strongly, especially around this idea of confronting the past.
And I also think Dionne Brown just has a really delightful and just charming presence. And so I think I really want to recommend the show. If it's not quite hitting for you after the first couple of episodes, just give it a shot because I think it really finds its groove midway through. So that's "Queenie," and all eight episodes are streaming on Hulu now.
HOLMES: All right. That sounds very promising. Thank you very much, Aisha Harris. Stephen Thompson, what is making you happy this week?
THOMPSON: So, I am not usually a big teaser-trailer guy. I am not necessarily a big fan of the long, slow trickle of promotion that says, this movie's coming out in a year and a half. I'm always like, wake me when it's out, and then I'll be enthusiastic about it. But they did drop a teaser trailer, just giving the title, for a movie that I am so happy about in advance. It is called "Wake Up Dead Man."
YOUNG: Yay.
THOMPSON: It is premiering in 2025. Just all they said is...
HOLMES: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...2025, and I'm like, that's next year.
YOUNG: Same, same. Right. Same.
THOMPSON: "Wake Up Dead Man" is the next "Knives Out" movie from the director Rian Johnson. I'm going to love this movie forever, the way that I love "Knives Out" forever, the way I love "Glass Onion" forever. Now I'm just like, even if it's bad, it's going to be so great.
HOLMES: Now you're just on board to be delighted.
THOMPSON: I just find these particular mysteries to be such a perfect mix of comfort food and comedy and cleverness. And so "Wake Up Dead Man," whenever in 2025 it comes out - I'll be very sad if it's, like, coming December 31.
HOLMES: Yeah.
THOMPSON: But...
HOLMES: Not impossible.
THOMPSON: ...Whenever it comes...
HARRIS: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...I will be delighted. It is always so fun to have something to just completely, unabashedly look forward to. And that's what this movie is for me.
HOLMES: All right, Cate Young, what is making you happy this week?
YOUNG: So my grandmother died last week, which is not the thing that makes me happy, but it has been a difficult week, kind of figuring out how to grieve from afar. Most of my family is still back in Trinidad, and it's just me in LA, having to kind of process that news on my own. And I'm not good at that. So what I did instead was revisit an old Spotify playlist that I made ages ago that is literally just a bunch of disco songs from Alex Newell.
HOLMES: Oh, sure.
YOUNG: Yeah. I just danced to it all week. And one of the songs that's really been helping me through is "Kill The Lights" with Nile Rodgers. I think it's also with DJ Cassidy. And it's so bright, and you kind of can't not be happy. Even if you're really, really sad, you're going to tap your feet to it, and I think that's probably why it's the best choice for my first track on the playlist.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "KILL THE LIGHTS")
ALEX NEWELL: (Singing) Kill the lights and look right at me. Close your eyes. You can see me by the way that I feel. Kill the lights and...
YOUNG: And it gives me just, like, a tiny boost of serotonin so that I don't have...
HOLMES: Yes.
YOUNG: ...To be freaking out.
HARRIS: Yeah.
YOUNG: And it has been the only thing keeping me alive this week.
HOLMES: I think you have explained one of the major pieces of value of all cultural projects...
YOUNG: Basically.
HOLMES: ...And products.
YOUNG: Yeah.
HOLMES: Well, I am sorry to hear that, but I'm very glad that the playlist is helping.
YOUNG: Thank you.
HOLMES: And listen, who doesn't love a bunch of disco songs? Those are the disco songs of Alex Newell. What is making me happy this week? I was on vacation for a couple of weeks, and so I read several books. And one of the books that I read is not a new book. It is a 2021 book called "The Plot" by Jean Hanff Korelitz. I read it in the run-up to the fact that it has a sequel coming out in October.
Now, the original book is called "The Plot." The sequel to "The Plot" is called "The Sequel." So don't try to Google these things. It's very, very difficult. So in the plot, there's a novelist named Jake, who has had one pretty well-received book and then not been able to kind of build much of a literary career for himself. He's now teaching at a writing program. And Jake, through a complex set of circumstances, finds out that a student of his who he doesn't like has a great idea for a novel.
YOUNG: I read this book.
HOLMES: And Jake manages to take that idea and turn it into what becomes a phenomenally successful novel for him. So, of course, it is a thriller about the fact that he lives in fear of being found out as a fraud. And suffice it to say, a lot of other stuff happens in this book, a lot to the point where don't read anything about "The Sequel" if you haven't read "The Plot" because the - reading about "The Sequel" at any level...
YOUNG: Will spoil it.
HOLMES: ...Will spoil "The Plot" because when you get to the end of "The Plot," you'll be like, I don't really understand what a sequel would even look like. Safe to say, I just found this to be the most engaging, enjoyable thriller. It is also - you know, I talked about with "Hit Man," the fact that I found its worldview kind of bleak. The worldview of this is also incredibly bleak. But it felt - it was easier for me to take because it's kind of better integrated with what I expected, I think. I super recommend it. Again, it's called "The Plot" by Jean Hanff Korelitz. That is what is making me happy this week.
One last thing before we go - we want to hear your opinions on summer snacks. Are you team hot dog or team hamburger? What's better - sugar cone, waffle cone, cake cone? What's the best thing to get at DQ, and why is it the Peanut Buster Parfait? I'm not trying to influence the vote. Vote now. You'll find a link in our episode notes. And we are going to be revealing these results in a virtual live taping exclusively for NPR Plus supporters, which is a great way, by the way, to support our work and support public radio. And also, you get to listen sponsor-free. The event is on Thursday, June 27, at 6 p.m. Eastern time, 3 p.m. Pacific.
And if you miss the event, by the way, Plus subscribers will be able to hear the episode in their feed later this summer. If you're not a Plus supporter yet, go to plus.npr.org/happyhour. Again, that's plus.npr.org/happyhour. If you already are a Plus supporter, we, of course, thank you. And look at the episode notes to see how to vote on the best summer snacks. You don't have to be a Plus supporter to participate in the summer snack survey. That brings us to the end of our show. Stephen Thompson, Aisha Harris, Cate Young, thanks so much for being here.
THOMPSON: Thank you.
YOUNG: Thanks.
HARRIS: Thank you.
HOLMES: This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and edited by Mike Katzif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy, and Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next week.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
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