< 'Inside Out 2' is a Pixar sequel worth celebrating

STEPHEN THOMPSON, HOST:

Pixar's "Inside Out" was a sensation. It grossed nearly a billion dollars, won an Oscar for best animated feature and drew countless accolades for the way it helped children understand their own emotions.

AISHA HARRIS, HOST:

That film introduced us to the core emotions inside an 11-year-old girl named Riley. Now in a sequel, Riley is experiencing puberty and the new emotions that come along with turning 13. I'm Aisha Harris.

THOMPSON: And I'm Stephen Thompson. Today, we are talking about "Inside Out 2" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. Joining us today is Regina Barber. She's a host and reporter for NPR's science podcast, SHORT WAVE. Hey, Regina.

REGINA BARBER, BYLINE: Hey, I'm super excited. I'm loving this.

THOMPSON: So glad to have you here. All right. So the first "Inside Out" is one of Pixar's most beloved movies. It featured a tremendous cast to convey the inner workings of a young girl's brain. We met Joy, voiced by Amy Poehler; Sadness, voiced by Phyllis Smith; and Anger, voiced by Lewis Black. Nine years later, much has changed both inside the movie and out. Bill Hader and Mindy Kaling voiced Fear and Disgust in the first movie. They've been replaced by Tony Hale and Liza Lapira, respectively. And a whole new crop of emotions have popped up, most notably Envy, voiced by Ayo Edebiri, and Anxiety, voiced by Maya Hawke.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "INSIDE OUT 2")

MAYA HAWKE: (As Anxiety) I'm Anxiety. I'm one of Riley's new emotions, and we are just super jazzed to be here. Where can I put my stuff?

LIZA LAPIRA: (As Disgust) What do you mean we?

AYO EDEBIRI: (As Envy) I wish it was as tall as all of you.

LEWIS BLACK: (As Anger) Who the heck are you?

THOMPSON: Soon enough, Anxiety has literally bottled up Riley's original core emotions and sent them hurtling into the back of her mind, where they plot to get back and set things right. The film is in theaters now. Aisha Harris, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of "Inside Out 2"?

HARRIS: Well, look. I wasn't exactly hopeful about this.

BARBER: (Laughter).

HARRIS: In my view, Pixar has only produced two really great sequels, "Toy Story 2" and "Toy Story 3." The latter is almost 15 years old, and the rest of the sequels have been kind of good to middling, I would say.

BARBER: Agreed.

THOMPSON: That is some "Toy Story 4" erasure. "Toy Story 4" is awesome.

HARRIS: It has been erased from my memory 'cause that was...

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: It was perfectly fine, but whatever. Because I had those low expectations, I think this far exceeded my expectations. I really enjoyed "Inside Out 2," especially as someone who does suffer from anxiety. Anxiety - adding that to the mix was, like, perfect for my brain. I appreciated it. It was probably one of the best cinematic interpretations of what anxiety can feel like that I've ever seen. And Maya Hawke does such a great job here voicing this character. And I love the way the character's animated. It really captures the feel of anxiety - the bugged-out eyes, the upstanding hair - kind of looks like a Fraggle. Like, it's pretty on point.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: So yeah, I loved it overall. I did have some caveats. I don't think it packs, like, quite the same emotional punch as the best of Pixar does. But I had a really good time here.

BARBER: I mean, I agree with Aisha. Like, it was not equal to the first one. I didn't go in with low expectations, but I didn't go in with high expectations. So it kind of met my expectations. It felt like an episode of a series instead of a film until, like Aisha said, that representation of what anxiety at its, like, really most intense feels like. And that was at the end of the movie. And I think finally made it seem like a film.

I went with my daughter, and my daughter was 6, turning 7, when we saw the first one, and she felt like she could really relate. And now she's 15, turning 16, and she was like, I can really relate. So that was really just wonderful, that experience to see her cover her mouth when I'm covering my mouth at, like, the tension parts. That experience with my daughter, Dori, was really great.

THOMPSON: Did you name your daughter Dori for the character in "Finding Nemo"?

HARRIS: Speaking of Pixar.

BARBER: So, yeah. Honestly, no. But people have asked me that. Her whole name is Dorian, so that's her nickname.

HARRIS: Ah.

THOMPSON: OK.

HARRIS: That's nice (laughter). I love it (laughter).

THOMPSON: So I came down, I think, pretty similarly to both of you. I measured my expectations, understanding that this was not going to be the equal of the 2015 film. But for me, the 2015 film is my absolute No. 1 favorite Pixar film. So "Inside Out" came out when my daughter was 11 years old. So I was an absolute heaving wreck that entire film. And I got to go to the theater and see it with her. And I think she mostly just, like, held up her hand to the side of her face so she wouldn't have to watch me have a 'sode.

HARRIS: Wait, she already had embarrassment before Riley did? Wow. (Laughter).

BARBER: Yeah. She developed it early.

THOMPSON: Yeah. And it's actually - it is one of my quibbles with this film, is that it's introducing emotions that were plentifully there...

BARBER: Yeah.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: ...In my kids...

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: ...Well before puberty.

BARBER: All toddlers had envy.

HARRIS: Yeah, yeah. Envy - yeah.

THOMPSON: Yeah. I mean, envy is there before puberty. Anxiety is there before puberty. Embarrassment is...

BARBER: Oh, yes.

THOMPSON: ...There before puberty.

BARBER: Yes.

THOMPSON: And ennui is there before puberty. I think there is a certain tidiness to the construction that is kind of necessary when you're trying to talk about really...

BARBER: Yes.

THOMPSON: ...Complex ideas.

BARBER: Right.

THOMPSON: We came out of the theater in this film kind of quibbling with some of that tidiness, where Grace, who's now 20 and very cynical was - liked it, but was kind of picking it apart, the way 20-year-olds do.

BARBER: Yeah.

HARRIS: Yeah.

BARBER: That must have been fun, though. Did she have nostalgia yet? Were you excited about that character that kept on coming in, Nostalgia?

HARRIS: I loved Nostalgia.

BARBER: Me too.

THOMPSON: I was so delighted by Nostalgia. But also another case of, like, little kids have nostalgia all the time.

BARBER: All the time.

THOMPSON: Some kids are more sentimental than others, but others, like, start looking back at the age of 6 at, like, what their birthday party was like when they were 5. For me, I came down on this film a little bit the way I did on "Kung Fu Panda 4," which came out just earlier this year. And those films actually have a lot of similarities. They are sequels to franchises I love with white-hot passion. They both have significant and noticeable changes in their voice cast.

BARBER: And I noticed right away. I was like, Bill Hader is not here. But I didn't notice Mindy Kaling. When you said that, that surprised me.

HARRIS: Oh, I could tell.

THOMPSON: Yeah. I actually felt like there was a little bit of an uncanny valley situation with a bunch of these voice performances where maybe to compensate for the fact that there were these changes, it almost felt like they were, like, sweetening the voices digitally somehow. Phyllis Smith didn't sound quite the same. Amy Poehler didn't sound quite the same.

BARBER: It's true.

THOMPSON: One of the few things that kind of kept pulling me out of my enjoyment of this movie was, as much as I love these voice actors and deeply love the performances in the first film, there's something a little bit off about the voices here. Did you guys find that?

HARRIS: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I noticed that with Amy Poehler and the characters who were returning, just because I do think, like, you know, nine years is a long time, and people's voices change, you know?

THOMPSON: Sure.

HARRIS: So, like, you're not going to sound the exact same way. Just like the voices may sound a little bit sweeter, I feel like this feels a little bit less like the stakes aren't as high. Like, I could kind of tell where this is all going to...

BARBER: Yes.

HARRIS: ...Land, and it landed pretty much where I thought it was going to. And the ride was still fun, but, like there was no bing bong moment, there's no - for me, at least, there was no callback to an earlier moment in the movie that, like, triggers my own hyperawareness of myself or memories quite like, say, like, Miguel singing, "Remember Me" to Mama Coco. You know, like, there's nothing like that here. And I knew they were trying to get to that place. But at the same time, it just doesn't - it didn't quite hit in that way. And so there is sort of this sort of - I don't know - standing down, I think...

BARBER: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...Of even though we have now Anxiety and Envy and these more, like, complicated emotions, it felt less complex than the first film in many ways.

BARBER: I think that's - I agree with that, and that's what I was meaning by, like, episode versus film.

HARRIS: Yeah.

BARBER: To speak to your point, Aisha, I did actually get emotional at the very end...

THOMPSON: Yeah, me too.

BARBER: ...When Anxiety said, I just wanted to protect her.

HARRIS: Oh, yeah.

BARBER: And, like, I'm almost getting emotional now because I - like you said, Aisha, I also suffer from a lot of anxiety and have my whole life. And you shouldn't be mad at Anxiety, right? She's like, you need to take a second and listen to them, and what do they want, you know? And - because they're trying to protect you. And at the very end, when trying to calm Anxiety down - and they're like, what should we worry about? It was so accurate, I think...

HARRIS: Yeah.

BARBER: ...To people, at least me, that - experiencing anxiety. And so I almost started crying when she looks - you know, the Maya Hawke character Anxiety looks so sad and didn't mean for this to happen, but everyone else could see that this was the end of the train that she was like, you know...

HARRIS: Yeah.

BARBER: ...Going on.

HARRIS: I guess it just - it didn't work on me in the way that Pixar movies often do, which is, like, I'm in a ball curled up and, like, can't stop myself from crying.

BARBER: Right.

THOMPSON: (Laughter).

HARRIS: It still hit me, but it didn't hit me quite the same way. And the person I was with at the theater - they were sniffling (laughter) at that part. So, like, it could have just been I'm not in the right headspace.

BARBER: Yeah.

HARRIS: Stephen - I don't know - did you shed tears?

THOMPSON: Aisha, you and I have worked together for a number of years now.

HARRIS: I don't know why I asked that question.

THOMPSON: I guess because we live on opposite coasts, we don't get to hang out and see movies together very much.

HARRIS: Yeah, we've never seen a movie together. But I do know you're a little ball of a mess often.

THOMPSON: I'm a little ball of mess, I think, in part, related to the gigantic cluster of anxieties that govern me. I did cry a whole bunch a little bit early on at the beauty of some of the world building.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: And a lot at the end because even though that resolution is something you can more or less see coming, they went a little more complex with it than I was afraid they were going to. There's a recurring line in the film that I was afraid was going to be the ending point of her sense of self. And instead, they made it more complicated, and the...

BARBER: Yeah.

THOMPSON: ...Way they are - Regina, are you having the same?

BARBER: Yeah. No, I know exactly where you're going, and I started crying at that part, too.

THOMPSON: You can't see Regina, but her hand is, like, starting to cover her face in the way that my hands sometimes start to cover my face.

HARRIS: I know. I feel like such a cold, heartless...

THOMPSON: (Laughter).

BARBER: When you see your own child cry at that part...

HARRIS: Yeah.

BARBER: ...Too, I think that's what probably got me when Riley, in her mind, says, I'm not good enough. It just hit me so hard. And I could hear my own daughter saying that to herself and myself saying it to myself. And I was just like - like, you could feel it.

THOMPSON: Yeah. I just want to say I'm just so moved by how multidimensional that character is and how Anxiety sort of is trying to help. And so, like, teaching kids and conveying, A, like the movie "Puss In Boots," this film...

(LAUGHTER)

THOMPSON: ...Has an extremely realistic portrayal of what a panic attack is like.

HARRIS: Yes, yes.

BARBER: So real.

THOMPSON: And, B, that is really helpful to kids who have experienced panic, to see that portrayed on the screen and to understand that it is not something that is happening within your own uniquely broken self but is instead an experience that lots and lots and lots of people have. But I also appreciated this film's embrace of anxiety as an important part of the way we move through the world.

HARRIS: Yeah. I can't believe I'm going to be quoting John Mayer here, but there is a song.

(LAUGHTER)

THOMPSON: Did not see this coming. OK.

HARRIS: There is a song that lives rent-free in my head by John Mayer. It's called "The Heart Of Life." And at one point in the song he says fear is a friend who's misunderstood. And fear and anxiety, they go hand in hand. In fact, there's a great moment between Fear and Anxiety where Fear's like, you and I are going to be friends. And I'm like, oh, yeah (laughter).

BARBER: And then later he's like, I think I can change her.

HARRIS: That is what I really love about this film, as you said, Stephen, is this idea that, like, all of these emotions can be your friend. You just need to figure out when's the right time to play with them? When is the right time to let them shine? When do you kind of try to keep them at bay? And, you know, that was a general theme of the first film, as well. But I think here, once you now have nine feelings and emotions, which is a lot - I love Ayo, but, like, I didn't quite understand what Envy - how Envy was, like, contributing to the story here, but that's - it's fine. I wanted more of her, I guess.

BARBER: She was just really cute.

HARRIS: She was very cute. I just...

THOMPSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...I think I wanted her to be incorporated a little bit more distinctly here. I do think that that general feeling of, like, OK, how do we deal with all of these emotions and not think that any one of them makes you a bad person at your core?

BARBER: Right.

HARRIS: That is, like, a message that I think is very sweet. And I agree for - if we're talking about a movie that is also meant for kids, of course, I think that that's such a great sort of lesson to take away from it.

BARBER: I like that it did continue this idea of, like, Joy was in charge in the first one, and she just wanted her to be happy all the time. And then, like, in the second movie, she still kind of wants that, you know? And she's still learning. There's nuance now 'cause she's like, when have I ever steered you wrong? They're like, lots...

HARRIS: Yes.

BARBER: ...Of times.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Come on, Joy.

BARBER: You know? So they're all kind of more - they're more...

HARRIS: Yeah.

BARBER: ...In tune with, like, that you can't be happy all the time. We didn't solve all the problems in the first one, and we're still a complex person, and this idea that I'm just - I'm a good person, I'm a good person is so...

HARRIS: Yeah.

BARBER: ...One-dimensional, you know? And people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 80s still only have that one-dimensional...

HARRIS: Yeah.

BARBER: ...View of themselves. And I think it's not just for kids. I think adults can watch this and be like, I'm selfish sometimes. I'm egotistical sometimes. Sometimes I'm caring. Sometimes I don't have energy for that, you know? And, like, it's really hard.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: And if I - yeah. And you're tapping into something that I definitely wanted to say in this conversation, which is that if I've had one central quibble with the "Inside Out" movies, it is in the depiction of the parents, and particularly the dad.

There is a really - a joke I hate so much, where you, like, see the inner workings of the mom's mind, and it's like a panel from "The View." And then you get a window into the dad's mind, and he just wants to watch the hockey game. The movie could not care less about the inner lives of these parents in ways that are frustrating.

HARRIS: Well, I do think that in this movie, they handle at least the mom a little bit better. Like, the moment when she recognizes that Riley is going through puberty, we get a peek into her brain and how she's...

THOMPSON: Sure.

HARRIS: ...Going to react to it. And - I don't know - maybe it's just because I love Paula Pell so much, so, like, hearing...

THOMPSON: Yes.

HARRIS: ...Paula Pell in that sequence.

THOMPSON: Great use of Paula Pell (laughter).

BARBER: I do want to say just real quick. We said that there was no, like, bing bong moment. The closest thing they tried to do is, like, have the - you know, the cartoon character that she was too embarrassed that she still liked. And I just want to give a shoutout to Ron Funches.

HARRIS: Yes.

BARBER: Who I love.

HARRIS: Ron Funches.

BARBER: And I'm glad he's getting some screen time.

HARRIS: Yes. He plays a character named Bloofy who's basically, like, "Blue's Clues" meets...

THOMPSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: ..."Dora The Explorer" and "Barney." It just reminds me a lot of, like, hey, kids.

THOMPSON: Hey - it's definitely, like, breaking the fourth wall and talking to the kids, and which would you choose?

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: And he's also got this, like, anthropomorphic fanny pack.

BARBER: Yeah.

HARRIS: Pouchy.

BARBER: That was really good.

THOMPSON: That stuff, I found so delightful.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: Like, anytime you have a character emerging from someone's imagination in a different animation style, you have got me.

BARBER: Well, the video game character was pretty good, too.

THOMPSON: Yes.

HARRIS: Yes, yes.

BARBER: Pretty accurate.

HARRIS: And...

THOMPSON: Yes.

HARRIS: ...Mount Crushmore was fun.

(LAUGHTER)

THOMPSON: All right. Well, we want to know what you think about "Inside Out 2." Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/pchh. Up next - What Is Making Us Happy This Week?

Now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, What's Making Us Happy This Week? Regina Barber, what's making you happy this week?

BARBER: OK, so I've been watching "Delicious In Dungeon," and it's on Netflix. Basically, you have this, like, troop of people. So you have, like, a human; and you have, like, a dwarf; and you have the halfling; and you have an elf. And what happened with this crew is that they've lost one of their troop members. She got eaten by a dragon.

THOMPSON: OK.

BARBER: And they're trying to get her back. And the whole time I'm watching, I'm like, how are you going to get her back if she was eaten by a dragon? But it becomes more complex and more mysterious. And instead of bringing food in, they, like, kill monsters and eat them. So they're making these meals in the various levels of the dungeons, and it's like, half cooking show because it's, like, close-up shots of, like, anime food. It's, like, everything I've ever wanted - anime food and, like, Dungeons & Dragons and cartoon. It's a perfect show.

THOMPSON: So that's "Delicious In Dungeon" streaming on Netflix. Thank you, Regina Barber. Aisha Harris, what is making you happy this week?

HARRIS: Well, I said I wasn't a ball of mess at the end of "Inside Out 2," and I wasn't. But the movie "Tuesday," which is this very - both funny but also deeply disturbing and dark and emotional movie did make me shed a few tears by the end of it. It's directed by Daina O. Pusic, and it stars Julia Louis-Dreyfus as a mother with a terminally ill teenage daughter. And Death visits them in the form of a macaw. Yes, a parrot.

It is a movie with some humor. At one point, the parrot is rapping along to Ice Cube's "Today Was A Good Day." You can see how it's - it can be a little bit off-kilter, but then it's also, like, got a lot of heart, and it's got a lot of great emotional beats. And it's just, like, a really weird movie that I think people should see. And I don't think everyone's going to vibe with it, but I think if you do, you will. So that's "Tuesday." It is out in theaters now.

THOMPSON: Wonderful. Thank you, Aisha Harris. So a lot of my favorite bands of the '90s played in a style called slowcore. These bands were huge on college radio in the '90s, and they still have cult followings today, mostly among Gen Xers like me who came of age as those bands were coming up. And what's making me happy is the return of one of my favorite kind of lesser-known slowcore bands. They're called Idaho. And they just put out their first album in 13 years. It is called, appropriately enough, "Lapse." Let's hear a little bit of the first single. It's called "On Fire."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ON FIRE")

IDAHO: (Singing) Save me again. The only way.

THOMPSON: So even that little clip has such a distillation of what I love about this particular sound - the mix of clean and distorted guitars.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: The mumbly but somehow still evocative vocals. The way prettiness and sadness kind of swirl together. And what's making me happy is both this new record and the chance for fans of better-known but like-minded bands to rediscover or discover for the first time something that they might have missed 25 or 30 years ago. So that's "Lapse," the new album from the band Idaho. I love it very much. That is what is making my tiny, black Gen X heart happy this week.

One reminder - we want to hear your opinions on summer snacks. Would you rather eat a crab cake or a lobster roll? What is the best treat from Dairy Queen? If you'd like to participate, you'll find a link in our show notes. I have been researching exhaustively. We're going to be revealing the results in a virtual live taping exclusively for NPR+ supporters. The event is on Thursday, June 27, at 6 p.m. Eastern time, 3 p.m. Pacific. And if you miss the event, Plus subscribers will be able to hear the episode in their feed later this summer. That's going to be the core four. That's Linda Holmes, your Glen Weldon, your Aisha Harris and this guy right here.

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: If you are not a Plus supporter yet, go to plus.npr.org/happyhour. Again, that's plus.npr.org/happyhour. If you are already a Plus supporter, thank you so much. You don't have to be a Plus supporter to participate in the summer snack survey. You know you want to. Anyone can click the link and vote in our show notes. That brings us to the end of our show. Aisha Harris, Regina Barber, thanks so much for being here.

BARBER: Thank you.

HARRIS: Thank you.

THOMPSON: This episode was produced by Rommel Wood and Hafsa Fathima and edited by Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

Copyright © 2024 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.