< We debate the sweatiest movie of all time

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

LINDA HOLMES, HOST:

Whether they're lightly perspiring, gently glowing or soaked through from sweltering, people in the movies sweat a lot. They sweat in sexy movies and in dramas. They sweat all over the place.

STEPHEN THOMPSON, HOST:

But what movie has had people sweat the very most? There can be only one champion, and with summer underway, we are unafraid to ask the tough questions as always. I'm Stephen Thompson.

HOLMES: And I'm Linda Holmes. And today on NPR's POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR, we're debating, what is the sweatiest movie of all time?

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HOLMES: Joining us today are our co-hosts Aisha Harris - hello, Aisha.

AISHA HARRIS, HOST:

Here and sweaty to serve, Linda.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: And Glen Weldon. Hello, Glen.

GLEN WELDON, HOST:

Cool Hand Glen, they call me. Hey, Linda.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: So the sweatiest movie of all time is a question that, believe it or not, has come up in the culture from time to time. In fact, the very first episode of "Cheers," the gang debates this very thing.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "CHEERS")

RHEA PERLMAN: (As Carla Tortelli) What movie did people sweat the most in?

GEORGE WENDT: (As Norm Peterson) That's easy - "Rocky II."

JOHN RATZENBERGER: (As Cliff Clavin) No, no, not even close - "Body Heat," sweat city.

RON FRAZIER: (As Ron) "Ben-Hur" - the boys in that galley sweat like pigs.

WENDT: (As Norm) Oh, no, "Alien." That's right, "Alien" - buckets.

HOLMES: That was more than 40 years ago, and a lot of sweating was yet to be filmed. So we have each brought a nominee for the sweatiest movie ever. Just so you know, we will be talking about sweat of all kinds, so we will be talking about sex for a few of these movies.

Stephen Thompson, my sweaty friend...

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: ...What did you bring for your pick for sweatiest movie?

THOMPSON: Well, I brought a sweaty movie. I brought a sexy movie. I brought a movie full of awkward rutting, and what could be sweatier than that? I picked the 2001 Mexican film "Y Tu Mama Tambien," which helped make massive stars of basically everyone involved. Alfonso Cuaron, the director and co-writer, went on to win several Oscars for directing "Gravity" and "Roma." Diego Luna, Gael Garcia Bernal, Maribel Verdu - all very, very, very successful actors.

If you have not seen "Y Tu Mama Tambien," one, I highly recommend it. And two, just to give you a quick plot description, it is a sort of coming-of-age road movie in which two very horny and inept young men recruit an older woman, played by Maribel Verdu, to go on a road trip to a sort of mythical beach spot during kind of everyone's summer break. Along the way, you get a lot of sex and talk about sex and sweating and smoking in cars. And I've rarely seen a movie that I could so consistently feel like I could smell.

HARRIS: (Laughter).

WELDON: That's going to be a through line, yeah.

THOMPSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: Yes, yes.

THOMPSON: Like, first of all, enormous amounts of cigarette smoke...

HARRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: ...Fair bit of food and drink, lots of other smells that you can sort of imagine. Diego Luna and Gael Garcia Bernal - of all the effective kind of costuming in this film, one of the most effective visual cues in this film was clearly behind the scenes. Someone said to those two young men, please don't ever wash your hair.

(LAUGHTER)

THOMPSON: There is just something so sticky and hormonal about them and their performances. There is an extraordinary amount of nudity in this film. There is an extraordinary amount of sex in this film. It is definitely hot, but it is also so perfectly frenetic and awkward that this movie just situates you in a cloud of hormones as these people are driving through the very sweaty, very dusty, very picturesque Mexican countryside.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "Y TU MAMA TAMBIEN")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character, speaking Spanish).

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character, speaking Spanish).

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #3: (As character, speaking Spanish).

THOMPSON: And so you get a travelogue. You get a coming-of-age movie. You get a raunchy teen sex comedy. But you also get something that is more than that at the same time. This is a thoughtful film. But, man, you just are in that car with them. And it is 105 degrees.

HARRIS: Yeah. You made me want to rewatch this because I don't think I've watched it in probably 20 years or so. And all I remember about it was hot. Not just actual hot, but also, all three of them are hot.

THOMPSON: Everybody is so beautiful.

HARRIS: Yes. Yes. Yes.

HOLMES: Stephen, do you think the sweat in particular is used for anything other than itself? Without sweat, how would this be a different movie?

THOMPSON: One thing going back and watching it with sweatiness in mind, you're not seeing a lot of big pit stains. You're not necessarily getting visual signifiers of sweatiness in this film the way I'm sure some of these other picks or some of the movies that were mentioned in that "Cheers" clip may have more physical sweat associated with them. But this is very specifically a summer heat movie.

WELDON: Sure.

THOMPSON: This is very much...

WELDON: Sure.

THOMPSON: ...Like, the sweat is in the season. It's in the sense of place. But it's also, like, in the constant drumbeat of bad decision making.

HARRIS: It's in the details.

WELDON: OK. So Stephen, I'm so glad you picked this film because I can tell you definitively that you're wrong...

THOMPSON: Oh, great.

WELDON: ...Because I was going to come in with this film, right? That was my pick. So I went back and watched it, and not that sweaty. People think it's really sweaty because there's one particular scene at the end that is very, very sweaty. Well, as you say, there are no visual signifiers of sweat, which means, like, the sweat is the friends we made along the way.

(LAUGHTER)

THOMPSON: No, no, no, no.

WELDON: That's not...

THOMPSON: You can't go that literal on me, Glen.

WELDON: Not accepted. Not accepted. Rejected.

HARRIS: It's a feeling, Glen. It's a feeling.

WELDON: (Vocalizing).

HOLMES: Oh, boy. I think that there is something to be said for sweat as a stand-in for heat more generally, which brings me to my pick. In the words of the man with whom I always agree, Cliff Clavin...

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: ...I chose "Body Heat."

HARRIS: Yeah.

WELDON: OK. That was my other pick.

THOMPSON: "Body Heat's" a great pick.

HOLMES: "Body Heat" is a 1981 neo-noir written and directed by Lawrence Kasdan, starring William Hurt and Kathleen Turner. This is really the movie that made a star out of Kathleen Turner. It is so related in theme to "Double Indemnity" that there are people who received it as, essentially, a remake of "Double Indemnity," almost.

HARRIS: Yeah. Yeah.

HOLMES: And it isn't quite that. But it is a story about this guy who is sort of a loser and meets this woman who he's just absolutely transfixed by. And like all sexy projects in the '80s, it begins with a saxophone.

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HOLMES: The very first thing that you see is his sweaty back. And the very first thing that you hear is the woman that he has just slept with, who is not Kathleen Turner, who says, my God, it's hot.

LYNN HALLOWELL: (As Angela) My God, it's hot. Stepped out of the shower and started sweating again.

WELDON: (Laughter).

HOLMES: And as Stephen talked about, there is sweat, and then there is heat. I think they are pretty attentive in this movie to both of those things. It is a very, very sweaty movie...

THOMPSON: (Laughter).

HOLMES: ...Partly - you know, people will talk about this as a really, really frank movie sexually for the time, which, I think, for a big studio - a big American studio release, I think it was. But that's less because of the sex acts that you're seeing in the movie, and it's more because of how naked this movie is. And not just because it's showing naked parts that you don't normally see in movies but because the way that it's shot, they're very good at implying, really showing you that people are naked by, like, showing the entire side of somebody's naked body...

THOMPSON: Right.

HOLMES: ...So you know they're naked.

HARRIS: Sides are hot. Sides are hot.

THOMPSON: Sides are hot.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: And my point is, I think the feeling that you get is that the nudity and the sex and the sweat are all connected because it all takes place during this stretch where people keep talking about how hot it is.

HARRIS: Yes.

HOLMES: And I think the oppressiveness of the heat has to do with his character, Ned's, closed little life and the way that he is so susceptible to the appeal of this very classic femme fatale. And in fact, you know, it's hot, hot, hot, hot. He's sweaty, sweaty, sweaty. He meets with his buddy, played by Ted Danson before "Cheers"...

THOMPSON: (Laughter).

HOLMES: ...In a diner, where, you know, it's smoky. The grill is going. They're sweaty. There's also a very literal conversation. There's a - he has a cop friend, in addition to his Ted Danson prosecutor friend, who expresses some thoughts about what hot weather is like for the police.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BODY HEAT")

J A PRESTON: (As Det. Oscar Grace) You know, people dress different, feel different. They sweat more, wake up cranky and they never recover.

HOLMES: See, it's absolutely true.

HARRIS: Yes.

WELDON: It's absolutely true.

HOLMES: But then he goes outside, and there's a breeze. You see the breeze on his face, and you go, huh. And this is, of course, when he's about to see her. So she becomes associated with a break from the heat. That kind of becomes part of how she comes into his life at this very oppressive moment.

But the funniest thing about this - and listen - it absolutely gets away with what I'm about to play for you. But when they meet in a bar, and they talk, and they shake hands, this happens...

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BODY HEAT")

WILLIAM HURT: (As Ned Racine) You all right?

KATHLEEN TURNER: (As Matty Walker) Yes, I'm fine. My temperature runs a couple of degrees high, around 100. I don't mind. It's the engine or something.

HOLMES: Ah, that's so amazing. She literally runs hot.

(LAUGHTER)

WELDON: Hot - there you go.

HOLMES: Amazing.

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

WELDON: Well, I was going to pick this. The only reason I didn't is because I've never seen it. I only saw clips of this movie on "Siskel & Ebert" back in the day...

HOLMES: Yeah.

HARRIS: Oh.

WELDON: ...And from those clips, which made an impression, you could tell that the line item in the budget for glycerin in this film...

(LAUGHTER)

WELDON: ...Is just the GDP of Guam. You know that this...

HOLMES: It's true.

WELDON: ...Set has those - caution wet floor - signs everywhere.

HOLMES: Yeah.

WELDON: Very sweaty movie. Good pick.

HOLMES: I just think this is not only an incredibly sweaty movie, which it is, but it's a movie where I think the sweat is doing work.

WELDON: Yeah.

HOLMES: And I like...

HARRIS: Yeah.

HOLMES: ...Sweat that does work. Also...

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

HOLMES: ...Listen, it's a super sexy movie.

WELDON: Yeah.

THOMPSON: I haven't seen it since I was a teenager, but it made an impression.

WELDON: Yeah.

HARRIS: (Laughter).

WELDON: Look, to your point, Linda, I think a lot of the films - I haven't heard Aisha's yet but I have a feeling a lot of the films - all the films are we talking about today will use the pathetic fallacy, which is that literary term for when you attribute human qualities to nonhuman things, like when you say the clouds are sullen. And weather is the No. 1 pathetic fallacy that always gets used. Heat as a signifier for usually imminent conflict...

THOMPSON: Right.

WELDON: ...Or violence is on the way. But a lot of the films we're going to be talking about use heat to kind of mirror the emotions...

HOLMES: Yeah.

WELDON: ...Or trigger them.

HOLMES: And I think this one is using the heat, partly for its stifling nature, which is how heat is here in D.C. in, like, July and August. It's less that you can't bear the heat and more that you just feel like you are constantly being pressed on by water molecules. And...

THOMPSON: The phrase I use a lot is Bayou toilet.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

WELDON: The phrase I use a lot is stuffed down Heat Misers' underpants, so it's all...

(LAUGHTER)

WELDON: ...It's all of a piece (ph).

HOLMES: Exactly. So it's that kind of, like, stifling atmosphere. So anyway...

HARRIS: Yes.

HOLMES: ...That is my pick - "Body Heat."

WELDON: Solid, very good pick.

HOLMES: All right, we are ready to move on. Aisha, I want to hear your pick.

HARRIS: OK, well, yes, as Glen pointed out, all of these movies, I think, for the most part - except maybe Stephen's, according to Glen...

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: ...But all of these movies have similarities (laughter) in terms of sort of what the sweat is doing. And my criteria for this was really just simple. It was, like, sweat, obviously - and not just one scene but, like, most scenes or almost every scene or maybe the entire movie - characters constantly commenting on how hot it is. Like, the characters have to be bothered by it or be, like, acknowledging that it's happening and not just sweating. And then, of course, the ambience needs to be integral to the part of the plot. And the tension for me had to be both sexual, violent, angry or all three.

And so, look, I don't think my movie really needs an introduction. It's probably the most obvious movie out of all of these, or at least it's one of the most cited, if you look at any list of sweatiest movies of all time. It is, of course, "Do The Right Thing," Spike Lee, 1989.

HOLMES: I only didn't pick this 'cause I - based on a previous conversation, I had a feeling...

WELDON: Yeah.

HOLMES: ...You were going to pick this.

HARRIS: I know. It was tough. I had to choose between this and a different movie that hasn't been mentioned. But yes, this came out on top for me. You know, when you think about how this movie starts, and the fact that it starts with basically a fly girl/Jane Fonda aerobics video of Rosie Perez, just like pumping to fight the power.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")

PUBLIC ENEMY: (Singing) Fight the power. Fight the power. Fight the power. Fight the power.

HARRIS: You can just see, like, all of that, like - the body, the kinetic energy, and how much she's working and making it look like work. And then you get the opening scene after that sort of opening credit sequence, where you have Sam Jackson as Mr. Senor Love Daddy, the local radio DJ who just so happens to be, like, directly placed in the middle of the neighborhood, this Brooklyn Bed-Stuy, do or die neighborhood. And he, out the gate, is doing his patter, his opening - like, good morning. It's hot.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "DO THE RIGHT THING")

SAMUEL L JACKSON: (As Mr. Senor Love Daddy) The color for today is black. That's right, black. So you can absorb some of these rays and save that heat for winter. So you want to get on out there, wear that black and be involved. Also, today's temperature's going to rise up over 100 degrees, so that's a jheri curl alert. That's right, jheri curl alert.

HARRIS: So you have him laying out what is going to happen today. Black - we're going to have this theme of Blackness, Black power, Black pride. And then also the jheri curl - you're just going to comment on the look and the costuming of the moment. Jheri curls, as we all know, if we've seen "Coming To America," that stuff, even in the cold doesn't work well, and especially in the sweaty, sweaty heat. And then, you know, what I love about this is that we've talked about the way that heat can be such an oppressive feeling. And we don't just have the oppressiveness of the heat, but then we also have the oppression and the oppressiveness of the police.

HOLMES: Sure.

HARRIS: Look at that. It's perfect.

HOLMES: Sure.

HARRIS: And so I think that, to Glen's point earlier, again, this movie, I think you can say, wouldn't exist without it being hot. Like, you can't imagine it being winter in Bed-Stuy and people getting...

HOLMES: No.

HARRIS: ...This upset at each other.

HOLMES: No.

HARRIS: Like, most people wouldn't be outside, and if they were, the energy is just not the same.

WELDON: Right.

HARRIS: You also wouldn't get the great scene where Tina, played by Rosie Perez, and Mookie, played by Spike Lee, decide, actually, it's too hot to have sex. This goes against most movies.

THOMPSON: When does that happen?

HARRIS: I mean, it happens in real life all the time.

THOMPSON: It happens in life.

HARRIS: But like...

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Another reason why this movie is so true to life.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "DO THE RIGHT THING")

ROSIE PEREZ: (As Tina) No, come on, Mookie, just - no, hold up, wait a minute. First of all, it is too hot, all right? And if you think I'm going to let you get some, put your clothes on and leave here, and I'll see your Black a** for another week, you must be bugging.

HARRIS: Unlike so many other movies where, yes we get - and as we were talking with "Body Heat," like, there's just all this sexual tension - it's like, there's sexual tension, and then there's like, it's too hot to have sex, so let's just cool off with an ice cube.

WELDON: And it's embedded in that clip you - that great clip you pulled because it's like this idea of you absorb the sun, like, you're absorbing this energy, and that energy has to go someplace, right?

HOLMES: Yeah.

HARRIS: Yeah.

WELDON: And that's what's going to happen over the course of the film. It's hardwired into the language. We say things boiled over. We say, you know...

HARRIS: Yeah.

WELDON: ...People get heated. We say I run hot, for example. It's all of a piece.

THOMPSON: What makes this such a great pick is that heat is a catalyst in this film.

HARRIS: Yes.

THOMPSON: It's not just ambient. It is integral to the plot, as you kind of said, Aisha. Like, things in this film happen because of the heat, in addition to the heat setting a mood.

HARRIS: Yes.

HOLMES: Yeah. I think one of the things that these films have in common is that a lot of times, as we've mentioned, you'll see heat used as a kind of escalate, escalate, escalate. I think these are films where you also get heat and sweat as, like, claustrophobic, pressing down...

HARRIS: Yeah.

HOLMES: ...Kinds of things where they pressurize the environment. And, listen, this is how particularly humidity - maybe not dry heat, but particularly humidity - this is how it feels. It feels like it is coming down and kind of lying on top of you and you can't move.

HARRIS: Yeah.

HOLMES: And so I think they do a really good job, both of these films, in using heat in that specific way to kind of be closing in, rather than just escalating out.

HARRIS: Especially in a place like New York City where everyone...

HOLMES: Yes.

WELDON: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...Is already on top of each other.

HOLMES: Yes.

HARRIS: And the heat also translates to the look of the film, too. It's also, you know, Ruth Carter's costuming and the fact that...

HOLMES: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...A lot of people are wearing red and white, and then...

HOLMES: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...Ernest Dickerson's cinematography, which is like you can see the red and yellow tones just, like, jumping off of the...

HOLMES: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...The screen.

HOLMES: Love it.

HARRIS: So "Do The Right Thing" - sweatiest movie...

HOLMES: Love it.

HARRIS: ...In my opinion, but I'm sure Glen is going to, you know, give us...

HOLMES: Love it. Amazing.

WELDON: Oh, Glen is going to make a case. Yes.

HARRIS: Oh, OK.

WELDON: It's great pick though. Great pick.

HOLMES: We absolutely have open minds about your wonderful pick. Now that you've disqualified Stephen's pick, go ahead.

THOMPSON: Yeah. I'm coming into this with vengeance in my heart.

WELDON: OK. Good to know.

HOLMES: He's hot. Stephen's hot.

WELDON: Emotionally open. He is. He's coming in hot. My pick also takes place in Brooklyn during a heat wave. You will know it when you hear this classic piece of dialogue.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "DOG DAY AFTERNOON")

AL PACINO: (As Sonny) Get over there. Go back there, man. Go over there, will you? He wants to kill me so bad he can taste it.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #4: (As character) OK, no one's going to kill anybody.

PACINO: (As Sonny) Attica. Attica. Attica.

HARRIS: Attica. Attica. Yep.

WELDON: This is, of course, the 1975 film, "Dog Day Afternoon." It's right there in the title.

THOMPSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: Yep.

WELDON: Directed by Sidney Lumet. Stars a very young Al Pacino as Sonny, John Cazale as Sal. It's about a real hostage situation that took place in Brooklyn and a Brooklyn bank, specifically on August 22, 1972, It opens with this amazing tone-setting montage of shots of a very sweltering New York in the '70s. And can we just agree that cinematically, at least, New York in the '70s is a vibe. It's - you can watch this movie, you can feel the back of your neck getting dirt and gritty. I mean, like, it is just - you got dogs digging into trash bags on the street. You got people watering down their sidewalks. You got...

THOMPSON: Yeah.

WELDON: ...The stink of the garbage in this film, the feel of the humidity, like you mentioned, Linda, it's like walking through broth. There's a funk to this film. You see people collapse, sweating on the sidewalks. They're dripping sweat on Coney Island beach. So it's sweaty - yes. But the reason this is going to win is because we're talking about two different kinds of sweat in this movie. You've got the heat and humidity sweat, yes, especially after the cops cut the power in the bank, everybody is just glistening. There is also flop sweat.

Ah, we haven't had that yet. Nervous tension. Everyone in this film is anxious because it quickly becomes clear that these robbers don't know what the hell they're doing. And the camera is always in motion because Pacino is always in motion. He's pacing. The cameramen used roller skates. They used wheelchairs. So they were just going back and forth. And there is a visual signifier of just how sweaty this is because throughout the film, Pacino's character carries a handkerchief that he's always dabbing his brow with.

WELDON: And as he's pacing, he's moving around. He's got moves like Jagger, basically. He looks a lot like Jagger. And, you know, in conclusion, number one...

THOMPSON: In conclusion, "Dog Day Afternoon" is a land of contrasts.

WELDON: That's right.

HOLMES: (Laughter).

WELDON: New York in the '70s sweat is the sweatiest sweat you'll ever sweat. You can smell the armpits in the movie, but that is compounded - and I would say exponentially compounded - exponentially multiplied - by the fact that it's - there's also nervous flop sweat. There is tension. There is dread. There is fear. There is an anxiety. That is a sweatiness multiplier. that is "Dog Day Afternoon." Sweatiest movie of all time.

HARRIS: OK. I see your point. I think it's excellently argued. "Do The Right Thing" also has the nervous sweat. That...

THOMPSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...Entire scene in Sal's Pizzeria before Radio Raheem is murdered by the police, there's all these close-ups of their faces and Sal yelling. And there's - and nervous sweat. There is sweat happening there.

WELDON: Of course it does, but it introduces the sweat part way into the film. It introduces the tension, the dread, part way into the film. This starts from opening minute one when they walk in the back, you know something's going to happen. And that tension does not let up. There's a lot of humor in it. There's lots because...

HARRIS: I feel like Chuck D brings the sweat from the - but whatever (laughter).

HOLMES: Oh, no. Saxophone and sweaty back of William Hurt.

THOMPSON: I just - I feel like as the person who has clearly picked the movie that is not going to win...

HARRIS: Oh, Stephen.

HOLMES: I don't know that that's true.

THOMPSON: ...I should cast the deciding vote for "Do The Right Thing" out of spite against Glen.

HARRIS: Yay.

WELDON: No, I get it.

HOLMES: Oh, that's reasonable.

Alright. Well, we want to know what you think is the sweatiest movie of all time. Find us at facebook.com/pchh. That brings us to the end of our show. Aisha Harris, Glen Weldon, Stephen Thompson, always glad to be with all of you. Thanks so much for being here.

HARRIS: Thank you.

THOMPSON: Thank you.

WELDON: Thank you.

HOLMES: This episode was produced by Mike Katzif and edited by Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Linda Holmes, and we will see you all tomorrow.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

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