< June Squibb's 'Thelma' is the wrong grandma to mess with

AISHA HARRIS, HOST:

Financial scams against the elderly are an unfortunate phenomenon. But what happens when a fraudster messes with the wrong grandma? The very fun action comedy "Thelma" imagines exactly this scenario. The movie stars June Squibb as a scam victim seeking to reclaim her losses. Tracking down the scammer, though, is easier said than done. I'm Aisha Harris, and today we're talking about "Thelma" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. Joining me today is NPR film critic Bob Mondello. Hello, Bob.

BOB MONDELLO, BYLINE: Ooh, it's so great to be here. I love this movie. Oh, my God.

HARRIS: It's a pleasure to have you here. And also with us is Philadelphia Inquirer's arts and entertainment editor and film critic, Bedatri D. Choudhury. Hey, Bedatri.

BEDATRI D CHOUDHURY: Hello. I'm so happy to be here discussing this film. Spoiler alert - I loved it, too.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Yeah. Yes. That's our only major spoiler here - is that I think we all really enjoyed this film. But to kind of set it up a bit, "Thelma" stars June Squibb in the titular role. She's this spry, elderly woman who's scammed out of her money by someone pretending to be her grandson, Daniel, over the phone.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THELMA")

JUNE SQUIBB: (As Thelma Post) Hello.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Grandma.

SQUIBB: (As Thelma Post) Danny? You sound so strange.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) I'm in jail.

SQUIBB: (As Thelma Post) Oh, my God.

HARRIS: The real Daniel is played by Fred Hechinger. Thelma, indignant, enlists her old friend Ben to help her find the scammer and get her money back. And Ben's played by the late great Richard Roundtree in his final performance. Together, they set out on an adventurous trek across LA in his motorized scooter. There's a lot of fun sight gags with that.

MONDELLO: (Laughter).

HARRIS: "Thelma" was written and directed by Josh Margolin and was inspired by an incident that actually happened to his own grandmother. And it's in theaters now. So, Bob, I want to start with you. I know you saw this during Sundance, and I heard - I mean, we've already heard, but we know that you really enjoyed this. So tell us a little bit more about how this movie struck you.

MONDELLO: Well, it's kind of the ultimate Sundance movie; isn't it? One of my reactions was the heartwarming-ness (ph) of it attached to characters who you feel like you kind of know, I mean, all your life maybe. June Squibb is just the most wonderful character in this. I mean...

CHOUDHURY: Cosign. I cosign that. Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

MONDELLO: She's so cool. I kept thinking during it that having her team up with Richard Roundtree - she basically wants his scooter, and she steals it. She doesn't just go there.

HARRIS: (Laughter) Yeah.

MONDELLO: She is such a feisty grandmother. She's just fantastic. And she's off and running from the very beginning. And I kept thinking, you know, in 1971, before any of us had heard of June Squibb, Richard Roundtree was Shaft.

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: Right? I mean, he was spectacular. He was the action hero. He was like, oh, my gosh. I had such a good time at this movie, and I just finished watching it again. One of the things about it - very early on, she is watching a Tom Cruise movie called "Mission Impossible."

CHOUDHURY: Yes, she is.

HARRIS: Yes. One of the more recent ones, where he's...

MONDELLO: (Laughter).

HARRIS: ...Doing all of his own stunts at his big old age in his 50s and 60s.

CHOUDHURY: (Laughter).

MONDELLO: And she's watching it on a little, tiny television set. And she says something about him running. Well, once she gets into this and she decides she's going to go after the scammer, she sets off at, I guess, what you'd call a brisk stroll...

CHOUDHURY: (Laughter).

MONDELLO: ...Which is kind of the 94-year-old equivalent of running.

HARRIS: Yes.

MONDELLO: And that's what this movie's all about. It is a geriatric "Mission Impossible."

HARRIS: (Laughter).

MONDELLO: It's just - it's spectacular. And even the soundtrack sounds like - anyway, I just had such a good time with this movie.

HARRIS: Yeah. The music really sells this movie.

CHOUDHURY: Yes, absolutely.

HARRIS: It gets a lot of comedic mileage out of, you know, this little old lady being inspired by none other than Tom Cruise, who's, you know, 30-plus years...

CHOUDHURY: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...Younger than her but still doing his own stunts. And apparently, June Squibb here did a lot of her own stunts as well.

CHOUDHURY: Yep.

HARRIS: Not that she's...

MONDELLO: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...Running across, you know, buildings, but there's some action here.

CHOUDHURY: Yes.

HARRIS: So, Bedatri, please tell us more about how you enjoyed this movie so.

CHOUDHURY: Yeah. So, you know, I was just reminded of an interview where Richard Roundtree thought that June Squibb was closer to his age. And then when he figured out that she is...

MONDELLO: (Laughter).

CHOUDHURY: ...You know, older by a decade or so, he was, like...

HARRIS: Yeah.

CHOUDHURY: ...Really nervous. But this is such - to use Bob's words, it's such a charming film. Like, you know, and it's so nice to have a film in the beginning of your summer that is - like, you know, not trying to do the, quote-unquote, "discourse," but it reminds everyone of their grandmothers irrespective of the fact of whether they were like Thelma or not.

HARRIS: Yeah.

CHOUDHURY: What a beautiful way to start the summer of cinema this year.

HARRIS: She definitely reminded me a lot of my nana, my great-grandmother who lived to be around June Squibb's age, you know, to be in her 90s. There's a lovely little recurring gag here where Thelma is constantly, like, passing strangers on the street and is like, I think I know you. And then they have this, like, back and forth where, like - well, do you know so-and-so? And they're like, no.

CHOUDHURY: Yeah.

HARRIS: And I have seen my nana have those exact same conversations. It's just, like, the really lovely touches. And I think the fact that, you know, the writer-director, Josh Margolin, is basing this on his grandmother in part - like, you can really see that. That's, to me, sort of what makes this movie - like you were saying, Bob, it feels familiar. You feel like you know these characters because this is truly coming from, like, a specific place. And it's just nice to see a story with, like - I feel like we've seen this increase of movies that are fronted by older performers, including all, like, the "Book Club" movies and whatever. But it's, like, great to see someone in their...

MONDELLO: Right.

CHOUDHURY: Yep.

HARRIS: ...Nineties who is doing this. And June Squibb...

MONDELLO: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...Is just perfect in this role, I think.

CHOUDHURY: Absolutely. You know, I was reminded of something Andrew Limbong said in our PCHH episode on "Monkey Man" that - you know, who gets to be an action star? - because Dev Patel, you know, is the lanky, tall action star. And I want to go back to Andrew and tell him that June Squibb gets to be an action star and, I think - I might have to bite my tongue, but I think sometimes better than Dev Patel.

(LAUGHTER)

MONDELLO: Now, there's a casting coup. Get the two of them together.

HARRIS: Oh, God.

MONDELLO: Wouldn't that be something?

HARRIS: Yeah.

CHOUDHURY: Yes.

MONDELLO: No. I mean, you know, usually, when you see someone who is older in a action film, the person is exceptional in some way that is - that doesn't feel real. I'm thinking something like "Red" that had Helen Mirren and Morgan Freeman and Bruce Willis, I think, and some other people. They are doing things that are, I guess, appropriate to their age, but these are younger people, right? I mean, June Squibb in her 90s can't do a run. She just can't. And so when she walks briskly, you are perfectly conscious - because they're playing the music that sounds as if it could be from "Mission Impossible." They've done a really nice imitation of the Lalo Schifrin stuff. It feels, you know, sort of bursting with energy all the time in ways that - I just can't begin to say how much fun this is. Having watched it twice, I know I'm going to watch it again.

HARRIS: Yeah.

CHOUDHURY: I was also reminded of it's a more recent film called "80 For Brady" with Sally Field.

HARRIS: Oh, yeah.

CHOUDHURY: And I was trying to think why this is different. You know, of course, it's always nice to see older women, you know, coming to terms with their sexuality, that they still have sexual needs so that - which was - "80 For Brady" was a lot about. But what I loved about this one is that she's doing this amazing thing. But it's not necessarily something that she keeps doing for the rest of her life. Like, you know, she doesn't do a "Murder, She Wrote" and becomes the town detective or something. But it's just...

MONDELLO: Right.

HARRIS: Yeah.

CHOUDHURY: It's just a little break she takes and then does something amazing and then comes back to her old life. And it's just so nice to see that journey for her.

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: The other thing is it's - it isn't that the film isn't dealing with issues that you come up against in old age.

CHOUDHURY: Of course. Yep.

MONDELLO: They have friends that they visit during - at one point, to get a gun.

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: But they have friends who are less well off than they are, who are the same age, and they're old friends. And she keeps talking about people who have died...

CHOUDHURY: Yeah.

MONDELLO: ...And things like that.

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: So you're aware of the kinds of things that you worry about with your grandparents.

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: But it's not that they're background. It's that they're part of life.

CHOUDHURY: Yep.

MONDELLO: And you sort of appreciate that. I have to say also, Fred Hechinger, the kid who plays the grandson...

CHOUDHURY: Yeah.

HARRIS: Daniel. Yeah.

MONDELLO: ...Is just - he's terrific.

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: He is so devoted to his grandmother and so kind of helpless. And, you know, there's a moment where she says, you're going to be OK. I know you're going to be OK. And you just - I just...

CHOUDHURY: Yeah.

MONDELLO: ...Melted. Forgive me. I am not the guy who cries at cornflake commercials. But this one just knocked me over.

HARRIS: I think what I - what you're both touching on and what I think struck me the most about this was the fact that this is very much a film about coming to terms with your own mortality.

CHOUDHURY: Yes.

HARRIS: You know, there's a line that - in particular that stuck with me. Thelma says something along the lines of, like, I didn't expect to get so old.

CHOUDHURY: Yeah.

HARRIS: And she's like, my social life has dwindled because all of my friends are dead. She says, like, all my friends are dead. And the fact that she's coming to terms with this but also Daniel and the rest of the family are also coming to terms with, like, mom, grandma - she's not doing as well. Like, she's still there, but, like, she's going to die...

CHOUDHURY: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...At some point. Parker Posey and Clark Gregg actually come up as the parents.

CHOUDHURY: Oh, my God. Parker Posey was so...

MONDELLO: (Laughter).

CHOUDHURY: ...As she always is.

HARRIS: Always, always. Anything she's in, I will watch. And I'm glad I watched this. But, like, they're also dealing with, you know, like, Grandma keeps taking off a wristband that is supposed to, you know, help us in case she falls or something. Like, all these little things and all of the ways - the million ways that you can die, especially as an older person, really come forth here but in a way that feels neither - to me, it didn't feel condescending. It didn't feel dismissive of being old. It felt very much like just - this is what life is.

CHOUDHURY: Yeah. And it wasn't doom and gloom, you know?

MONDELLO: Right.

CHOUDHURY: The older people in the film are not the butt of jokes. In fact...

HARRIS: Right.

CHOUDHURY: ...They're the ones cracking them. They're the ones having fun.

HARRIS: Yes.

MONDELLO: No. And in fact, the technology that is dealing with her as an old person - that watch...

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: ...I mean, is used in a way that you'd use something like that in a "Mission Impossible"...

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: ...Movie.

CHOUDHURY: (Laughter).

HARRIS: And also their hearing aids, too.

CHOUDHURY: Yeah.

HARRIS: Their hearing aids, too...

MONDELLO: Right. Exactly.

HARRIS: ...They sync up - her and Richard Roundtree's character - they sync up to, like, plan stuff.

CHOUDHURY: Their frequencies. Yeah. It was...

MONDELLO: (Laughter).

HARRIS: Yeah.

CHOUDHURY: ...Ingenious.

MONDELLO: It's funny that you say you're not there yet. I'm pretty close.

(LAUGHTER)

MONDELLO: You whippersnappers don't understand what this is like.

HARRIS: Well, there's one thing I - one final thing I wanted to touch on which, Bob, before we started recording, you mentioned, which is that, you know, Malcolm McDowell actually also shows up in this film.

CHOUDHURY: Yeah

MONDELLO: Right.

HARRIS: And there's a little interesting connection there between Malcolm McDowell and Richard Roundtree.

MONDELLO: Richard Roundtree - they had very big movies in 1971.

HARRIS: Yep.

MONDELLO: For Malcolm McDowell, it was "A Clockwork Orange," and for Richard Roundtree, it was "Shaft." They were big stars, and that's two decades before June Squibb arrived on the screen.

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: I'm not sure what she did younger - when she was younger, but it wasn't film. It wasn't television. It wasn't that kind of thing. And she comes along, and - oh, my goodness. She's just really something. I mean, she's such a presence. I'd love for this movie to do one gazillionth (ph) of what "Inside Out" is doing...

CHOUDHURY: Yep.

MONDELLO: ...Where she's playing Nostalgia, right?

HARRIS: Yes (laughter).

MONDELLO: I mean, she's - it's a very brief bit. She comes out a couple of times in "Inside Out 2," and they shoo her off. And all I can think is I want "Inside Out 3" to be all about her (laughter).

HARRIS: Yes. Get...

MONDELLO: It would be fantastic.

HARRIS: Oh, man, I'm here for this June Squibb moment. It feels...

MONDELLO: Yeah.

HARRIS: ...Lovely. And it's proof that, you know, it's never too late in life. So obviously, we all really, really enjoyed this film. You should definitely tell us what you think about "Thelma." Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/pchh. And up next, we'll be talking about what's making us happy this week.

And now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, What's Making Us Happy. Bedatri, let's start with you.

CHOUDHURY: I'm staying true to form. This is a slightly older Netflix series called "Jamtara." That's J-A-M-T-A-R-A. It's a Netflix series from India which focuses on this small industry of phishing scams. Basically, it's set in rural India, and it follows a few characters who, because of unemployment, because of poverty or whatever else, don't find other jobs. But they become a part of this very elaborate phishing scam, which is - it's kind of like a villain story. But it's very interesting to see how meticulously these things are planned and how easily. And it's - I would say it's also a meditation on human nature because how easily people - even people who have the knowledge, who have the - who are careful, but they still fall for scams like this - "Jamtara," which is streaming on Netflix.

HARRIS: Thank you so much, Bedatri. Bob, what is making you happy?

MONDELLO: Well, I was going to say one thing, but then I realized, oh, no, it's supposed to be pop culture, and I'm going to say it anyway...

HARRIS: Yes (laughter).

MONDELLO: ...Was corn on the cob.

HARRIS: Oh, my goodness.

MONDELLO: I'm sorry. This time of year, corn on the cob is so...

CHOUDHURY: Perfect.

MONDELLO: ...Delicious.

HARRIS: It is.

MONDELLO: It's just so - oh, my gosh.

HARRIS: Well, but we are actually doing an entire Plus event around summer snacks.

MONDELLO: (Laughter).

HARRIS: So (laughter)...

MONDELLO: Oh, phew.

HARRIS: You're actually...

MONDELLO: OK.

HARRIS: ...Kind of on brand.

(LAUGHTER)

MONDELLO: Well, perfect. I am enjoying corn on the cob so much. But because I had to come up with a pop culture one, I've got another one.

HARRIS: OK (laughter).

MONDELLO: And that is "Ghostlight."

HARRIS: Ooh.

MONDELLO: I don't know if you guys have seen it. There's a father, his wife and daughter, who are the central characters, who are played in real life - a father, his wife and daughter, who are big-deal Chicago actors. And he is a construction worker who is working through grief. And the family has had a family tragedy. And he gets roped into a community theater production of "Romeo And Juliet."

All the amateur actors in this are played by really seasoned Chicago professionals and are hilarious. It's a wonderfully comic film about tragedy, about how his family tragedy intersects with the tragedy that Shakespeare wrote. And it's a really interesting film, and I think the casting of it is what makes it so exceptional. And so anyway, it's kind of wonderful, and it's opening up across the country as we speak.

HARRIS: OK. So that's "Ghostlight," correct?

MONDELLO: Mm-hmm.

HARRIS: Awesome. Yeah. I think that was at Sundance. And I missed it, but it's on my list of to-watch.

MONDELLO: You'll like it. It's a really lovely little movie.

HARRIS: Oh, that's great. That's awesome. Well, look. If you're anything like me, you're very excited by the fact that there is kind of, like, a renewed sense of a song of the summer competition going on right now. In most recent years, there's been kind of, like, maybe the song of the summer isn't really a thing anymore. But I am obsessed with, of course, Sabrina Carpenter's "Espresso."

CHOUDHURY: I called this in my head. I was like, she's going to say "Espresso" (laughter).

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ESPRESSO")

SABRINA CARPENTER: (Singing) Say you can't sleep. Baby, I know. That's that me espresso. Move it up, down, left, right, oh.

HARRIS: OK. So I'm obsessed with it, but that is not what's making me happy. That just seems too obvious. What is making me happy is related to this in that there is a very, very super-nerdy and great and fascinating piece in Slate called "The Musical History Lesson Buried Beneath The Song Of The Summer." And it's written by Dan Charnas, and it's about "Espresso" ostensibly. But then it's also about an entire genre that doesn't quite have a name. And it taps into a phenomenon that you are aware of but, like, haven't really thought too much about if you're just the average person.

And he's talking about this sort of, like, post-disco, roller disco, synth-funk era in the early '80s. It's, like, Carl Carlton's "She's A Bad Mama Jama," Junior's "Mama Used To Say." And he's linking those songs to "Espresso" and how this song really, like, encapsulates all those things but also taps into racism within the music industry, how we classify and describe genre of certain musical styles and also, like, who gets to lead those genres and who doesn't, who gets the commercial success. And that is, again, "The Musical History Lesson Buried Beneath The Song Of The Summer" by Dan Charnas. And that is in Slate. You should definitely check it out if you, like me, are vibing to this song very, very hard.

CHOUDHURY: I'll add what I'm vibing to. I'm vibing to Tierra Whack's "World Wide Whack."

HARRIS: Ooh.

CHOUDHURY: Love that album. I already had my happy pick, but I could still find...

(LAUGHTER)

MONDELLO: This summer what I've been listening to is definitely not pop. They just released the original cast album of the last Sondheim piece...

HARRIS: Oh, wow.

MONDELLO: ..."Here We Are."

CHOUDHURY: Yes. Yep.

HARRIS: Oh.

MONDELLO: And I have been listening to it over and over and over again. I love it so much...

HARRIS: Yeah.

MONDELLO: ...But not anywhere nearly as pop and bouncy as anything that you guys are listening to.

HARRIS: If you want links for what we recommended plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Bedatri, Bob, thanks so much for being here. As always, it's a pleasure.

MONDELLO: This was really fun.

CHOUDHURY: And thank you so much. And if you're listening and your grandmother's still around, go call her.

HARRIS: Yes.

CHOUDHURY: Tell her you love her. Yes.

MONDELLO: Oh, yes. Absolutely.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and edited by Jessica Reedy and Mike Katzif, and Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris, and we'll see you all next week.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

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